Making it Harder to Buy Guns and Amno

[BigHornRam]

They are winning the war......

New way to track suspect credit card sales of guns and ammo approved by international organization

A CBS News investigation found credit card companies initially resisted the proposal.

www.cbsnews.com

"Visa had expressed concerns about the proposal. In a letter obtained by CBS News, sent by Visa on Wednesday in response to congressional Democrats who supported the plan, the company said, "We believe that asking payment networks to serve as a moral authority by deciding which legal goods can or cannot be purchased sets a dangerous precedent."

Visa wrote, "We understood Amalgamated Bank's request to be justified, at least in part, by an interest in blocking transactions that would fall under such a new category, and Visa's rules expressly prohibit blocking of legal transactions under an MCC.""

 

[JLS]

How does this make it harder?

 

[bucdoego]

I don't like it either. There is more than enough big brother intrusion in our daily lives already. There is also news of new restrictions on shipping guns and ammo by UPS (FedEx already added some), so this just adds to that news.

Visa, Mastercard, AmEx Categorizing Gun Sales in New Merchant Category

Democrats, including Sen. Warren, pressured the three payment processors to do this, calling it “an important step towards ending financial system support for gun trafficking, gun violence, and domestic terrorism.”

legalinsurrection.com

 

[HSi-ESi]

Cash is my preferred method anyway. Check would be a backup.

I can see the stance setting a precedence and eliminating a convenience if I was doing an online transaction.

 

[LWC55]

How does this make it harder?

Does more corp/govt bureaucracy ever make things easier?

 

[JLS]

There is so much data available through my iPhone that I really don’t GAF if these purchases on my credit card have a special code.

 

[JLS]

Does more corp/govt bureaucracy ever make things easier?

How does it make it harder? Don’t answer a question with a question.

 

[bucdoego]

Cash is my preferred method anyway. Check would be a backup.

I can see the stance setting a precedence and eliminating a convenience if I was doing an online transaction.

I put in serious effort to buy locally, but I've ended up buying via online sellers for unavailable items. I'm not alone in that either. Specifically, ammo with copper bullets (in three calibers) is a good example. Local sellers in this area seem to stock lead, or maybe can't get copper. Either way, I can't get it from them.

From the reading I've done, these changes are being pushed by the anti-gun activist organizations. We know what their goals are, so no point in writing more.

 

[LWC55]

How does it make it harder? Don’t answer a question with a question.

It will make it harder the same way that "15 days to flatten curve" ended up with you can't go to church, you can't go to school, you can't see your dying wife in he hospital, you can't have a funeral, you can't have a job, you can't be in the military, mandatory vacs, etc.... etc.... But you can shop at Walmart.

More govt/corp involvement almost always makes things harder on the citizens. They don't start at the end point. They start at the point where people ask "how will this make it harder"

 

[Ben Lamb]

How does it make it harder? Don’t answer a question with a question.

I don't know that it makes it harder, but it does raise some questions about having the gov't know every little transaction that I make relative to a constitutionally derived right.

I certainly see both sides of this, and large quantities of ammo purchased, etc should trip some triggers but an algorithm to do this isn't the same as having a few flags pop up based on purchasing patterns, etc. But what's a large quantity to me is someone else's shooting weekend. Was talking with a guy who has a shooting preserve and he mentioned causally that he goes through about 25-50 cases of ammo during a season. Another guy who shoots 3 gun will blow through thousands of rounds and it makes financial sense to buy bulk rather than piecemeal it per match. Those folks would likely get caught in this and end up having to justify their hobbies to a group of agents looking for a reason to ensure the public safety, which could mean the long arm of the law would inadvertently make some mistakes.

So if we're looking at how this can make it harder to purchase guns & ammo I can see it having some effects like reducing merchants who are willing to subject their data to this kind of gov't intervention reducing the number of sporting goods stores on top of potential for Gov't abuse based on the political whims of the day.
In the end, I don't know that it will do much since it simply flags purchases after they're made rather than help people on the margins who are likely to be mass-shooters with up front mental health care, etc. I do see the possibility for abuse in the effort, especially if Congress funds it like they do all other gun programs.

Just all starts to feel a bit like Minority Report after a bit.

 

[BigHornRam]

When you lean on companies to comply.....this is just the beginning.

Editorial: Dems thrilled as credit cards track gun sales

That gun you purchase may be for personal protection, but thanks to a new move by credit card companies, you can be tracked as a potential mass shooter.

www.bostonherald.com

"And if there’s pressure to be applied to corporations, can Sen. Elizabeth Warren be far behind? Warren and fellow Democrat Rep. Madeleine Dean, D-Pa., sent letters to the CEOs of Mastercard, American Express and Visa demanding answers on why they were resistant to collecting more data on guns and ammo purchases."

 

[JLS]

Was talking with a guy who has a shooting preserve and he mentioned causally that he goes through about 25-50 cases of ammo during a season.

Sure. A friend of mine runs a sporting clay range. Each round is four boxes. They go through a metric shit ton.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sure. A friend of mine runs a sporting clay range. Each round is four boxes. They go through a metric shit ton.

Anyone in shooting sports will get a flag, and a visit - and that's probably not well thought out. It's congress we're talking about, after all - not the brightest and best our country has to offer.

 

[JLS]

Anyone in shooting sports will get a flag, and a visit - and that's probably not well thought out. It's congress we're talking about, after all - not the brightest and best our country has to offer.

If someone can’t see xxxxxx sporting clays LLC and connect the dots, they shouldn’t be a cop. They could very well get ordered by the upper brass to visit anyway, i which case I can see it going like this:

Agent so and so with alphabet soup agency

Yeah, what can I do for you?

You bought 100 cases of ammo

No shit, it’s a shooting course

I know, we were told to stop by

Anything else?

Nope have a nice day

 

[LWC55]

If someone can’t see xxxxxx sporting clays LLC and connect the dots, they shouldn’t be a cop. They could very well get ordered by the upper brass to visit anyway, i which case I can see it going like this:

Agent so and so with alphabet soup agency

Yeah, what can I do for you?

You bought 100 cases of ammo

No shit, it’s a shooting course

I know, we were told to stop by

Anything else?

Nope have a nice day

You are probably right as long as you agree with their politics. I don't see you having a problem.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If someone can’t see xxxxxx sporting clays LLC and connect the dots, they shouldn’t be a cop. They could very well get ordered by the upper brass to visit anyway, i which case I can see it going like this:

Agent so and so with alphabet soup agency

Yeah, what can I do for you?

You bought 100 cases of ammo

No shit, it’s a shooting course

I know, we were told to stop by

Anything else?

Nope have a nice day

Smells like a Kobayashi Maru scenario to me.

 

[tjones]

It will make it harder the same way that "15 days to flatten curve" ended up with you can't go to church, you can't go to school, you can't see your dying wife in he hospital, you can't have a funeral, you can't have a job, you can't be in the military, mandatory vacs, etc.... etc.... But you can shop at Walmart.

More govt/corp involvement almost always makes things harder on the citizens. They don't start at the end point. They start at the point where people ask "how will this make it harder"

At best that is one hell of a stretch.

 

[LWC55]

At best that is one hell of a stretch.

Feel free to list all the programs where the govt starts it and then reduces the scope and authority. Perhaps the IRS if you don't count the 87,000 new agents to be hired and millions of rounds of ammo

 

[tjones]

Feel free to list all the programs where the govt starts it and then reduces the scope and authority. Perhaps the IRS if you don't count the 87,000 new agents to be hired and millions of rounds of ammo

Maybe .gov should track large purchases of tin foil.

 

[JLS]

Perhaps the IRS if you don't count the 87,000 new agents to be hired and millions of rounds of ammo

Oh FFS. You do realize a lot of this is simply restaffing to previous levels?