Looking for advice on my GWP pup

[dexnrex]

For those of you who train/hunt with pointers I have a situation I would like some advice on. Piper my GWP is 8 mo. old and coming along well. She is sooo birdy it blows me away. All she wants to do is stalk and point birds. She is not real interested in retrieving and not to big on water which I'm hoping will come in time.

My dilema is this: every morning and eveing I take her for a run of about 1.5 miles with my 4 wheeler. We live on the Milk River in MT. Our route takes us along the river bottom, through an alfalfa field and along the gravel road. Almost every run Piper goes on point 1 or 2 times. I stop the 4-wheeler tell her to "whoa' and walk out to see what she is pointing. Ususally the scent is old an there is nothing there, sometimes a pheasant gets up and tell her "good girl" and we move on. Yesterday she went on point, a hen flew up and before I could get over to her she had a tiny little phesant between her paws and in her mouth. I scolded her because I don't want her to catch or kill birds, but that certainly won't help with her retrieving. Here she is with a bird in her mouth and I'm telling her that is naughty.

Any advice on how to handle these situations would be appreciated. This is my first pointer. My last dog was a lab so it is all new to me and Piper both.

 

[belly-deep]

Bad habits can be created in an instant and take hours upon hours to un-do. Yes, it is good to let your dog run and point birds, but it is not worth the possible caught bird, IMO. Stop running your dog if there is chance of a caught bird.

If you don't have control of the dog (e-collar usually) or are not confident she has the composure to keep from breaking point, don't put her in a situation where she has the opportunity to do so. That is the number #1 rule for avoiding training problems: never ask a dog to so something you can't control the outcome of. If you don't have a way to correct/stop the dog from grabbing a bird, don't put her in a situation where she can catch them. On the same token, don't rush to e-collar train a dog so you can get it on birds, because that can create a bunch of other problems.

Most experienced pointing dog trainers won't get serious about a dog until its 1 year old. Most guys on their first dog or two want to rush it and, while it may seem faster, it may create problems in the future and your dog won't be "finished" until much after a dog that has been trained at a slower pace.

Wait for a while until the chicks are grown up enough to fly. Don't take chances. I have two friends who train dogs on a semi-professional basis. I've seen the result of young dogs catching birds, and it often means a dog that will have steadiness issues for a long time, if not for their life. I've also seen dogs that have been zapped with e-collars before they understand exactly what they are supposed to do. Those dogs are usually always screwed up for life.

 

[birddog32]

Even though continental breeds mature alot faster than say setters or pointers she is still a "puppy". I have let my dogs chase if they want until they are ready to be worked on birds. Have never used an e-collar. I wouldn't get too concerned until you want to start the actual training with live birds. Catching one bird is not going to hurt her, but I agree with belly-deep to not run her until the chicks are grown and can flush.

If you want a finished dog, ie: steady to wing and shot it takes time and birds, lots of birds. Had a Gordon that won the 1989 National Gordon Setter Open Shooting Dog Championship and that dog was a bonehead for about 3 years. Took lots of birds and lots of time to break him. Getting him to honor was another story altogether.

Also had a Britt that was steady to wing at 6 months old and since I didn't field trial him except for NSTRA I didn't care if he was steady to shot. For hunting purposes in the grouse woods I wanted him to break at the flush.

Don't know if they're still in business but for training purposes I used Wag-Ag remote controlled bird launchers, pigeons, and a very long check cord.

Good luck with your dog, most GWP's and GSP's I've seen mature quickly. Take your time, everything concerning birds should be positive, and if you're unsure of how to go about using an e-collar, I would stay away from them.

 

[Huntfit]

Don't be overly concerned, your dog will learn right from wrong with simple obediance work. Ok, know she know's not to grab a bird, it is just a matter of letting her go on point and reinforcing that she is not allowed to grab them.

 

[dexnrex]

Thanks for the input. I have been using an e-collar and we work well together when using it. I will try to keep her from the birds for a couple weeks until this last hatch is a little older. When I run her I wil just try to keep her on the road and away from the birds if possible. I have to run her every day or she gets completely out of sorts.

I will work with live birds in the coming months and teach her that grabbing a bird is unacceptable. I just hope I can get her to retrieve the dead and wounded ones.

 

[Foxtrot1]

I am new to pointing dog training myself. This Jan will be 3 yrs. The posts above have offered some good advice. I don't think catching one bird will be the end of the world, but I would definately wait until the birds can fly to continue running her. I used retriever drills to excercise my dog when she was that age before bringing her into the house in the evening. She used to be a completely wound up after being locked in the kennel all day.

I can support the comments about rushing in. On my first puppy, I advanced with training her too fast. She responded, but her performance was spotty. Its just been in the last year after she turned 2 that it was like a switch had been flipped. She has been much more focused and consistent in training. I have progressed slower with my DK puppy. She has matured much faster than than my weim.

If you are going to use pen raised birds or pigeons, go ahead and buy some remote launchers. I trained my weim without them and the DK with them. I will never train another dog without them again. I know they are expensive, but they are worth it if you frequently train alone.

Good luck with your puppy.

 

[drahthaar]

Agree with letting those chicks grow. Why are they so small this time of year? Something happen out there? Gotta be a late clutch, her nest may have been wrecked.

Anyway, get that dog in the water!! It's hot and dry, it should be easy to get a dog to swim.

Work on her weaknesses. Fetch, fetch, fetch, and fetch some more, keep it fun, lots of praise. If the dog is not retrieving, always praise her for having something in her mouth, even if its your socks, your wife's shoes, or even the couch cushions(but don't set her up for failure in these regards). Make sure she doesn't have a problem in her mouth, a sliver, an abcess, etc.

Sounds like she knows the searching game, forget about that stuff right now. Work on working "after the shot", its the most important anyway.

 

[Horn Seeker]

I think being careful with the new broods is good up through July, unless you are seeing a lot of chicks later, I wouldn't worry about it. I think that has to be a rarity to have a chick that small this late.... A couple weeks ago we jumped a clutch that were just over quail size and I was real surprised... most of the juveniles we were jumping were probably 3/4 grown!

Sounds like you got lots of good advice here though!

 

[SWMontana1]

Talked with a professional trainer and he said even though GWPs were among the smartest dogs he has been around, he said that they have a "puppy brain" for about 2 years!

 

[dexnrex]

I have changed things up on our runs to avoid running into as many birds. It looks like it will be a good year for pheasant production with a hatch this late in the summer. Many of the earlier hatches are 2/3 grown now. The roosters from that hatch that Piper got into won't have any color by the time the hunting season starts.

I will slow down on the "hunting" training and keep working on obedience and try to get her more interterested in retrieving and swimming. Even though she is still very much a puppy she seems more mature at 8 mo. than my last lab was at 2 yrs.

Thanks again for the advice and comments.

 

[Slam]

I agree with the late clutch theory (I have found that usually by the 2nd wk of July all are flight capable). I to run my dog (Draht) every evening with a 4 wheeler if we are not working live birds or doing water work. One catch won't be a problem, multiple catches will play hell on steadiness. I wouldn't worry about the water work just yet. My dog wasn't interested until well into his 1st year doing any water or retrieving work, however, one winter evening he just started returning the sock I was throwing for him and has become a really strong water/retrieving machine...and loves it. His brother, who went to a friend, was brought on fast and force broke on the barrel and was steady by his 1st BD. Take your time, your dog will come on.

 

[belly-deep]

I think that has to be a rarity to have a chick that small this late....

I wounldn't call it a "rarity" exactly.