Long range ethics

[Tradewind]

Yep. But the pissing will continue. mtmuley

no doubt. and all that goes with it.

On the bright side it gives Harley a chance to dig into his meme collection.

 

[ID_to_NV2012]

"FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

The underlined portion is what this debate should be about. Is shooting at these long distances giving the animal's natural instinct a fair chance at detecting and avoiding you, the hunter? Probably not. I am not saying everyone should pick up a trad bow and really get primitive but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous. Everyone has a different set of ethics, I will never in my life shoot 500 yards outside of a gun range. I'm not about set some other arbitrary number that should be the max distance a hunter is suppose to shoot from. Rather, I think the above definition from B&C should he read and about by every hunter. Then ask themselves whether or not long range shooting during hunting season is ethical.

 

[VikingsGuy]

"FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

The underlined portion is what this debate should be about. Is shooting at these long distances giving the animal's natural instinct a fair chance at detecting and avoiding you, the hunter? Probably not. I am not saying everyone should pick up a trad bow and really get primitive but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous. Everyone has a different set of ethics, I will never in my life shoot 500 yards outside of a gun range. I'm not about set some other arbitrary number that should be the max distance a hunter is suppose to shoot from. Rather, I think the above definition from B&C should he read and about by every hunter. Then ask themselves whether or not long range shooting during hunting season is ethical.

Thanks for adding this perspective. I was following this thread with a focus on clean ethical kill probabilities as they are affected by distance, but this adds a whole other perspective for me. Not sure I entirely agree with the view, but very good food for thought as I continue to learn about western hunting.

 

[noharleyyet]

no doubt. and all that goes with it.

On the bright side it gives Harley a chance to dig into his meme collection.

I shot the long and the....long won.

 

[Callen]

For me just because I can hit steal at longer ranges doesn't mean that its right to shoot at an animal at longer ranges. It is unfair to the animal plus there is also no need my longest shot on an animal is 100yds. The longer the shot the more things that can go wrong, a bad shot wounding the animal, also the probability of never finding the animal goes up.

 

[ID_to_NV2012]

Thanks for adding this perspective. I was following this thread with a focus on clean ethical kill probabilities as they are affected by distance, but this adds a whole other perspective for me. Not sure I entirely agree with the view, but very good food for thought as I continue to learn about western hunting.

VikingsGuy, I am glad it was provided some insight. Almost every debate about harvesting animals at long distances seems to over look what is fair chase, to some degree or another. I am all about putting food on the table, but I believe a critter that lives 365 days per year in the wild , surviving predation, and starvation in the winter deserves a little more than a hunter killing it from longer ranges. To me that is an unfair advantage.

 

[Rzrbck918]

"FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

The underlined portion is what this debate should be about. Is shooting at these long distances giving the animal's natural instinct a fair chance at detecting and avoiding you, the hunter? Probably not. I am not saying everyone should pick up a trad bow and really get primitive but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous. Everyone has a different set of ethics, I will never in my life shoot 500 yards outside of a gun range. I'm not about set some other arbitrary number that should be the max distance a hunter is suppose to shoot from. Rather, I think the above definition from B&C should he read and about by every hunter. Then ask themselves whether or not long range shooting during hunting season is ethical.

Definitely deserves some consideration. But I think that is a difficult standard to define. All ethics derive from a defined value system. Ground blinds, ozone generators, camouflage, and the list goes on are all attempts to give the hunter an advantage over such animals. None of those things bother me but I'm sure there are differences in opinion about which of those things are improper. Reasons for hunting certainly impact our ethics in the field. I, as a recreational hunter who enjoys the challenge and thrill of the chase, certainly have different ethics about sportsmanship and hunting than someone who is a subsistence hunter attempting to feed themselves and their families.

Most people draw ethical lines at their feet. If they do it, its okay. If beyond their practice, it's not.

 

[The Hedgehog]

let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous.

So 499 is okay then? Or is it 299, taking it back to "reasonably ethical"..
For your bow is 10 yards ethical, when you're shooting a cat out of a tree with 4 baying hounds you've never fed waiting at the bottom for the cat to fall out? What about a bear with it's head in a bucket of donuts, from somebody else's treestand? Is it okay to take a close shot at a (insert animal type here), after you've paid an outfitter a few thousand to show up, tag along with him and his guide, and when the time is right you shoot something - knowing f-all about where you're at and how to hunt it?

Thanks for the definition of ethics by B&C, it's a good one. And 499 yards is okay right?

 

[The Hedgehog]

The poll question is impossible to answer for an open minded person. It depends on too many factors. What is ethical under 1 set of conditions, may be far from it an hour later under another set of conditions.
What is a slam dunk for one person may be an impossible shot for the next person. Neither of these people should define ethical for the other. Ethics are personal, and you can't draw a line at some distance and define one side of the line as ethical and the other side as unethical. Some of the worst shots on game, regardless of range that I have seen were because the shooter got excited. Is it ethical to get excited?

I have seen hunters fail to follow up a shot at fairly close range and others search for days at a longer range. Is one of these hunters more ethical because he swears off longer shots. Ethics really are just a sense of responsibility, some have it, some don't.

I think B&Cs' definition of fair chase is a good guideline.

^^^^^Boom!

 

[tjones]

but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous.

How about shooting 499 but the hunter was carrying a round in the chamber before the shot and left his truck parked along the interstate in WY. ?

 

[Fire_9]

VikingsGuy, I am glad it was provided some insight. Almost every debate about harvesting animals at long distances seems to over look what is fair chase, to some degree or another. I am all about putting food on the table, but I believe a critter that lives 365 days per year in the wild , surviving predation, and starvation in the winter deserves a little more than a hunter killing it from longer ranges. To me that is an unfair advantage.

But modern optics, clothing, and other hunting gear don’t give you an unfair advantage?

 

[Rifles And More]

Fair Chase died a long time ago, if you apply it to long range hunting you have to apply it to all hunting scenarios.

 

[psinclair]

For me just because I can hit steal at longer ranges doesn't mean that its right to shoot at an animal at longer ranges. It is unfair to the animal plus there is also no need my longest shot on an animal is 100yds. The longer the shot the more things that can go wrong, a bad shot wounding the animal, also the probability of never finding the animal goes up.

100 yards? It must rule to be you....

 

[Tradewind]

Fair Chase died a long time ago, if you apply it to long range hunting you have to apply it to all hunting scenarios.

Exactly right :hump:

 

[brockel]

Is guy that busts his ass all week long in the mountains and shoots his animal at 501 yards more or less ethical than the guy that drives around all week and shoots his animal 100 yards from the pickup?

 

[ID_to_NV2012]

Fire_9, let's all go back to rocks and spears if that is what you're getting at. I think there is amount of more modern technology that is acceptable and is fine by fair chase standards. The closer I am to the animal, regardless of what gear I have, that animal has a significantly higher chance of avoiding me because of its instincts.

 

[BrentD]

Fire_9, let's all go back to rocks and spears if that is what you're getting at. I think there is amount of more modern technology that is acceptable and is fine by fair chase standards. .

What is that amount? Isn't that the entire point here? defining it now and sticking to it in the face of the relentless onslaught of marketing and progress is the challenge. Hunters have not been able to face up to this yet. I see no sign that we will now.

 

[Gr8bawana]

My brother has a friend who can hit targets all day long out to 1100 yards. A couple of years ago he drew an antelope tag in AZ and he wanted to shoot a big one of course.
They searched for days until a suitable buck was located. They guy turned into a bowl of jello. He couldn't hit the buck to save his life even when it was less than 300 yards. Didn't dial down his scope.
Finally made a crippling shot and they had to trail it for miles before he could finally hit it again.
Goes to show you how someone can be an expert marksman on targets and at the range but have no business shooting at live animals.

 

[Rifles And More]

My brothers roommate knew a guy who could put arrows in the 10-ring all day long. During a hunt, a large buck stepped out under his tree stand (going to the mineral lick). As he raised his crossbow, he too turned to jello and pulled the shot. Turns out, his scope was dialed wrong also.

Goes to show I'm not the judge of who should shoot at live animals with what.

Game animals are wounded and lost with all types of equipment and methods every season. Sometimes by a newbie, sometimes by an experienced hunter; sometimes close range, sometimes long range.

 

[mtmuley]

I've noticed this issue is typically brought up by a member of recent involvement. It's gonna happen again. mtmuley