Locked Out Wilderness in My Private Idaho!!

[JoseCuervo]

It is always interesting to hear the anti-wilderness, anti-roadless groups claim that by designating Wilderness, you lock everybody out. My experience is that as soon as you designate it Wilderness or Roadless, you get more people.

Here is what the Put-in for the Main Salmon River through the Frank Church Wilderness looks like.

This is a picture of all the boats that are rigged the night before. My boat is in the foreground, the Blue w/yellow stripe. To float this river, you have to put in a Lottery in January, and then draw a tag, against 12:1 odds. Each day, 8 groups launch, with a maximum of 30 people. There are probaly 24 rafts pictured, representing 5 of the launches for the next day. For being locked up, it sure has quite a few people.

Then, there are other ways to get into the River, as the Jetboaters are an additional amount of people. Yes, you can take motorized vehicles into the "roadless" areas, even in Wilderness areas.

Besides floaters and Jetboaters, there are a couple of roads that come clear to the river, via Dixie to Mackey Bar, and then there are the Landing strips, bringing more into the "Wilderness". If you are looking for seclusion, the Frank Church is not that remote.

The camping is awesome along the Main Salmon, big enough to set up the Volleyball net at a couple of camps. Here is a "typical" Main Salmon camp.

Then there are other beaches, like this one at California Creek

I sure don't see any need to have
Welfare Rancher's cattle here...

And finally, at the end of 85 miles, you cross under the Wind River Pack bridge, and you realize you truly did leave "everything behind", as you spend 6 days on "river time", not worrying about anything other than water, fire, shelter, food, and Margaritas and Martinis!

Is there a "value" to the Wilderness areas? In my opinion yes, and even better, my kids who made their second trip down this river will be able do this same "experience" for years to come, and then their kids, and their kids.. etc... Only the hand of Mother Nature will change it now....

Just a glimpse into My Own Private Idaho.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-19-2003 19:59: Message edited by: ElkGunner ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Gunner, Great pictures! The people who are constantly whining about being "locked out" are the ones who want to be able to drive their car right up to every fishin' hole and throw out their beer cans!

 

[Nut]

Great pics Gunner!

Happy to see that you get to view the splendor that is there. Also happy as chit to see the pics you take.

 

[Michaelr]

awsome country.
I hope it remains forever!!

Great pics

 

[JoseCuervo]

The Main Salmon is a wonderful river. Just because Lewis and Clark were scared, and turned back, does not mean it is forbidding. One can find comfort in many places along the river.

Here are some pictures of the Polly Bemis Ranch. It is now a private "co-op" owned by about 30 people. Very busy during Steelhead season.
Polly was a Chinese immigrant lady, sold into "slavery/indentured servitude", and then won by Charlie Bemis in a poker game in Warren. There was a book and movie about her life, "Thousand Pieces of Gold".

This is her cabin, re-built after fire by the Shepps who lived across the river, in exchange for the Deed, upon her death.

The "main" lodge is pictured here.

And here is the beach at the Polly B....

Across the river is the beach at the Shepp Ranch. Look at that valley behind the Shepp Ranch. An incredible valley for hunting.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Shepp Ranch is situated in majestic isolation at the edge of the Salmon River - Lewis & Clark's fabled "River of No Return" - at the confluence of Crooked Creek. Located 15 miles from the nearest road and 43 miles upriver from the town of Riggins, Idaho. Access is by our 50-mph jet boats or by charter plane from Boise, McCall or Grangeville, Idaho. This rugged and beautiful country is in the Gospel Hump Wilderness <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shepp Ranch Home Page

But alas, I prefer a simpler experience, without power, and with my water running over rocks in the river....

And I like a place to sit down, where I can get away from it all,, and sit and contemplate life's special moments....

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-19-2003 20:47: Message edited by: ElkGunner ]</font>

 

[Bambistew]

Great pictures... Now keep em to yourself, it makes it really hard to work when you post smutt like that

The last pic in the first set really reminds me of my old stompin gounds of Bear Trap canyon on the Madison river, Montana.

Thanks for sharing

Ivan

 

[Elkhunter]

That sure looks like some awsome country. It is nice to see place like tahat still exist. Thanks for the great pictures.

 

[BigHornyRam]

Salmongunner,

Just think how crowded these waters will be as well as the rest of your own private Idaho when you get the salmon runs restored to historic levels.

You need to start posting pictures of defunct mines, overgrazed pastures, clearcuts, stinky dairies, run down trailer parks, and the like in an effort to keep the Californicators away. They see all these pretty pictures you post, and all 30 million of them will want to make it THEIR OWN PRIVATE IDAHO!

Paul

 

[Ten Bears]

There's a lot more to the Frank Church then just the rivers. I thought those riverside campsites were gonna be closed because of the heavy use and soil compaction..... What ever happened with the bull trout issues there?

IT, don't transpose your latent inner values onto others.

You seem to be the only one that keeps bringing up the want to drive cars in the wilderness areas. Could this stem from your days in the oil exploration industry?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-20-2003 09:08: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[FEW]

You have to draw a tag to float the river? It sounds like at 12 to 1 odds they are locking a shit load of people out. Cool pictures though.

 

[1_pointer]

Thanks for the AWESOME PICS! I've yet to find a wilderness area 'locked' to anyone with a pair of boots, a horse, or boat. Some even allow entry via helicoptor or airplane.

 

[FEW]

OK what would you call it when only 1 in 12 people get to go? The other 11 are locked out/forced out/forbidden whatever choice of words you use they are still denying access to 92% of the people who want it. All I can speak for is the the wilderness areas in AZ, and they are open to anyone who can get their ass in there without a vehicle which I really like.

 

[1_pointer]

Do you think they should give unlimited tags for all species of big game in AZ? How long would the resource last if that was the case? IMO, same type situation here. To protect the resource, they limit the number of people using the river. However, a good pair of boots or horse will still get you into the wilderness area, just can't be on a boat.

BTW, you stats only work if the 1 out of 12 are all that's allowed to go. Those not getting a permit may still be going via friends who drew the permit. One permit allows 30 people to go. Thus, I assume that you are over-estimating by quite a bit.

 

[FEW]

I did not know that one tag was good for 30 people but it still seems to me that if the odds are 12 to 1 that they are rejecting 92% of applicants??? I also did not get that you can still walk in just not use a boat, that seems pretty fair... Anyway I just wanted to give gunner some shit since he loves to dish it out so much.

I am surprised you would make such a wild comparison as asking if I thought we should give unlimited big game tags in AZ. You are usually so sane.

 

[JoseCuervo]

1-Pointer,
Thanks for covering my back side... You are correct, one permit allows up to 30 people.

If we have 12 people apply, we end up with a 1:1 chance of drawing. With some analysis of the process, and the statistics, I have found ways to improve the odds in my favor, so that we get tags every year, by being smarter than the general population...

Our group has maybe a bit of a handicap, as we had 18 this year, 10 kids and 8 adults, and for some reason, the US Gov't won't allow the kids to apply, but they still charge us the Daily "demonstration" fee for each kid, and they count toward the 30 people.

FEW,
The Jetboat guys can haul unlimited amounts of people in, all day long, if they have a permit. They have no people restrictions that I am aware of. Also, if I want to avoid the lottery, I can float the Main Salmon prior to June 20 or after Sept. 10, the permits are "first come, first served", with 8 of them available each day. And unlimited amounts of people can fly, drive, or hike in. I don't consider it "locked up", just the opposite, it is incredibly unlocked.


Paul,
I guess I am not too worried about the Wilderness getting over crowded, and hopefully if more people come, more people will support even more wilderness areas. I guess you could even say, that by posting these pictures, I can show people all across the country how Valuable and Accessible wilderness truly is.

I do think people are "intimidated" by the Wilderness, and think that they would never venture in there, due to the fear factor. Hopefully these pictures show a more welcome side. We had 10 kids with us, from age 5-12, so it is really not that intimidating.

Ten,
The campsites on the Main Salmon, after high water, are all "new sand" from the river, recharged each year. I don't think "compaction" could occur. Perhaps above the high water line. The Middle Fork could be more at risk to this, but I am not sure what the solution would be. Given that both rivers now have reserved campsites, perhaps they can move people around, and spread the compaction across all the camps, and not just the few favorites.

Bull Trout issues are still everywhere, but I don't think rafting or camping are hurting them. It seems like most of the damage comes from the Welfare Ranchers.

To all,
I have more pictures, and will try and post. Hopefully they are as enjoyable to look at, as they were for me to take...

 

[1_pointer]

No problem EG, I got your back, DAWG!

Please post more pics!!! I'm thinking my next float trip will be in ID instead of So. UT, prettier scenery.

 

[Ten Bears]

ELK GRINNER, My experience is in the middle fork country. I have been through trashed campsites (not uncommon), and last time I was there we found a bulltrout that had been hung on a tree by the campers.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,
I don't know if I have seen "trashed" campsites on the Middle Fork. With the regulations on fire pans, no detergent, and having to haul a sh!tter box with you, it seems like 99% of the "trashing" doesn't happen.

I think the main impact would be from setting tents in the same place each time people use the camp, and setting the kitchen in the same place each time, you would get "traffic" patterns. But on the sand beaches, not a problem.

And on the Middle Fork, keep in mind, that the only people regulated are the rafters and kayakers. By far the most damage I have seen with "trashed" camps has been from the Horse guys. Tie a horse or a mule to the same tree for 48 hours, and that area is trashed. "Leave no trace" is more difficult for the horse guys than the floaters.

As for the "campers" who hung a bull trout in the tree, that was probably one of the "un-enlightened" from here in SI, who was making some sort of protest over the Endangered Species Act.

The Middle Fork is truly one of the special areas in Idaho, and no amount of protection is adequate for that place.

 

[Ten Bears]

ELK GRINNER, I have never floated either of the rivers. My times in the wilderness have either been on horseback or a foot. The camps I'm talking about are farther a shore then the typical rafter camp on the beaches.

Have you ever run into any of the "wilderness brigade"? These guys go around taking down and destroying trail markers and signs.

 

[cjcj]

Gunner don`t you have to truck in your raft to drop it off? if that is the case then why are powerboats taking people in? i`m confused.