T
tjones
Guest
DOA 3rd reading in the Senate 24-Yes 26 -NO
HB26
HB26
I supported lighted nocks. Meh, no loss really though nocks do not give any advantage to a hunter in the taking of game. They do not self correct the arrow for the kill, they do not increase the penetration ~ though maybe when Rambo and advance weapon development come together... haha! Seems more personal choice and attitude of some demanding their opinion be forced upon others.
Hmm - Reminds me of the Bloomberg of NY. Big Mac next on his agenda?
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Hmm - Reminds me of the Bloomberg of NY. Big Mac next on his agenda?
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Straight Arrow
Well-known member
That's a really poor analogy, Sytes. The lighted nocks / electronics on archery equipment issue has been thoroughly vetted for at least the past two legislative sessions, with extensive debate. After polling members, MBA has been the most influential opponent of the bill. Remember, MBA is mostly to thank for your long archery only hunting season in Montana. Incidentally, if you want to hunt with lighted nocks you can do so anytime outside of the archery only season.
There are many supporting lighted nocks and many opposed, obviously enough opposed to defeat the bill. As evidenced by the voting data you displayed, it was thoroughly vetted through the legislature.
No disrespect intended, but your poor analogy smacks of sour grapes.
The way the bill was worded was the biggest problem for me. This is a decision best left up-to the FWP Commission, not the legislature. The bill would have stripped the authority of the Commission away.
Senator Van Dyk did a great job on this.
Senator Van Dyk did a great job on this.
Personally, I just don't see the problem. To me, they only aid in the possible recovery of an animal (i.e. by knowing shot placement). What is wrong with the possibility of recovering more deer during the archery season? I just don't see the advantage of lighted nocks for making the shot happen.
StrutNut
New member
Too much politics, not enough game management. I too agree it gives not advantage to the archer in the release or correcting of flight of an arrow. It does give the archer a better chance of not only retrieving their arrow but also a better understanding of the flight of the arrow. This can help in determining where the point of impact is on the target to help in deciding when to start tracking or not. So I believe, based on my own personal experiences with them that they can help recover wounded or mortally killed animals. Without a doubt it can aide those with less then perfect eye sight after the shot. So to me there is no sound biological reason to not allow lighted nocks. It is more of a personal opinion as to whether or not electronics have a place in archery. Odd since many archers also use electronic range finders, gps devices, cell phones and the like to also aid the hunter in the pursuit of game.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Deja Vu, all over again ... as they say. This issue has been hashed, rehashed, debated, inflated, deflated ... ad nauseum through threads on this forum and many others. Your points have been expressed, reiterated, analyzed, restated, refuted, repeated, on and on and on. This thread was initiated to inform those archery hunters in Montana of the disposition of the bill proposing lighted nocks for use during the archery only season in Montana. At this juncture it is really silly for hunters from SD, MN, and even Montana to restart the debate with respect to dead House Bill 26.
the nikster
Well-known member
Idaho piping up here!!
I am firmly on the fence-don't care either way.
I am firmly on the fence-don't care either way.
StrutNut
New member
SA - seems like you dislike anyone that would offer opinion different to yours. I guess it is "silly" for us to talk openly about our thoughts on a bill that may have an impact on us or are we not allowed to hunt in Montana? This is an open Archery forum, not a Montana forum. It seems, as a NR that often times this site is not for us. I guess I will just take my "silly" opinions and go elsewhere.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I think that Daylight Savings time should be done away with. I have to get up a hour earlier in the during hunting season, and can't hunt after work cause it's too dark. 
Now that is something I would like to see addressed by the Legislature! I agree, just stay on one time.I think that Daylight Savings time should be done away with. I have to get up a hour earlier in the during hunting season, and can't hunt after work cause it's too dark.
Having them waste their time on lighted nocks...TTTTHHHHHPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTT!
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
StrutNut, 'haven't even met you, so there is certainly no "dislike." And your opinions are valid, but just so cliche since those, as well as others opposed to lighted nocks, have been expressed so many times lately during the last two legislative sessions here in Montana. Some of us are just tired of the issue and of everyone getting on their high horse, like their opinion should be law. As a NR you certainly have the right to express yourself about a potential Montana hunting regulation, but to no avail at this late date.
'Sorry if your feathers were ruffled, but like my old hunting buddy used to say, "If I said anything to offend you .... believe me .....!"
'Sorry if your feathers were ruffled, but like my old hunting buddy used to say, "If I said anything to offend you .... believe me .....!"
Straight arrow, as you suggest viewing the voting stats it is pretty clear the majority support on the bill though didn't pass on the 3rd. Admittedly I am a rookie on the politics though what this suggests it there is spit in the fight. As for hash/rehash... sheesh, pick a topic here. Goes to support further there is spit in the fight.
I understand the commission vs legislation portion though on issues that hold such common sense factors that are road blocked by black and white stance when really... such use supports the intent of ethical hunting w/o creating any such advantage to the taking of game opposed to one holding in hand an electronic range finder... I'm not opposed to range finders, btw simply used as an example. Isn't the introduction of bills the peoples recourse?
It's a tight divided issue though one that still holds spit.
Take for instance, why is it reasonable to pass a bill re: outfitter pulled guaranteed tags? Again, I'm a rookie on commission vs legislation though wasn't this passed due to the commission's failure to strip the guaranteed tags?
I understand the commission vs legislation portion though on issues that hold such common sense factors that are road blocked by black and white stance when really... such use supports the intent of ethical hunting w/o creating any such advantage to the taking of game opposed to one holding in hand an electronic range finder... I'm not opposed to range finders, btw simply used as an example. Isn't the introduction of bills the peoples recourse?
It's a tight divided issue though one that still holds spit.
Take for instance, why is it reasonable to pass a bill re: outfitter pulled guaranteed tags? Again, I'm a rookie on commission vs legislation though wasn't this passed due to the commission's failure to strip the guaranteed tags?
RUT JUNKEY
Well-known member
Totally agree!!! Hey if they want to waste their time on the lighted nocks issue let them. . .it is crazy though how much people from certain states are against them. . .Personally could care less. . .i don't use them but who cares if you do. . .much bigger things to worry about I believe. . . but I'm just a hick from the woods of Indiana with too many guns. . . .
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Good questions, Sytes. But first of all "pass a bill re: outfitter pulled guaranteed tags?" isn't an accurate expression. The Outfitter Sponsored License (OSL) was done away with by an initiative I-161 voted on by the people in a statewide election, not through either the legislative or the FWP Commission process.
As far as lighted nocks, there are some who think the issue is one to be decided by the FWP Commission and others who want a regulation passed by the legislature. Either way it is an issue that has a pretty even spit / split. And there are valid arguments by either side in the debates. It seems the most influence stems from the position of MBA and so far they are concerned about what's best to protect the hard-fought-for separate archery only season. FWP's position has so far been to keep anything battery operated or electronic off of the archery equipment, thus standing steadfast in support of a more challenging archery only season. Many hunters do use hand held range finders, but so far not bow mounted. I can see both sides of the lighted nock issue, but I tend to agree if those are allowed then more electronics are sure to follow. The other factor is that the lighted nocks may be used during seasons other than the archery only season.
For those who are adamantly desiring light nocks, the good news is that the bill was tabled (pretty much killed) in the House FWP Committee last session. This session it made it to third reading on the second house floor before finally being defeated. So, if you consider that as a trend, you might predict a successful lighted nocks bill next go-around. But with more and more sportsmen and wildlife advocates realizing what this legislature is attempting ... the next session may take on a different tone.
As far as lighted nocks, there are some who think the issue is one to be decided by the FWP Commission and others who want a regulation passed by the legislature. Either way it is an issue that has a pretty even spit / split. And there are valid arguments by either side in the debates. It seems the most influence stems from the position of MBA and so far they are concerned about what's best to protect the hard-fought-for separate archery only season. FWP's position has so far been to keep anything battery operated or electronic off of the archery equipment, thus standing steadfast in support of a more challenging archery only season. Many hunters do use hand held range finders, but so far not bow mounted. I can see both sides of the lighted nock issue, but I tend to agree if those are allowed then more electronics are sure to follow. The other factor is that the lighted nocks may be used during seasons other than the archery only season.
For those who are adamantly desiring light nocks, the good news is that the bill was tabled (pretty much killed) in the House FWP Committee last session. This session it made it to third reading on the second house floor before finally being defeated. So, if you consider that as a trend, you might predict a successful lighted nocks bill next go-around. But with more and more sportsmen and wildlife advocates realizing what this legislature is attempting ... the next session may take on a different tone.
My rookie mistake. I-161 vs hb 26. Though does go to show it took a healthy push to overturn the commission(?) Some aspects take an approach beyond the commission.
As stated, "no loss really" - I simply do not understand how something that holds absolutely no advantage to taking game is barred due to a black and white 'general' stance. I think the vast majority appreciate the governance of no electronics attached to the bow, etc... The intent? Yet if one holds electronics in hand (range finder) - t'is a valuable asset...
Meh, not the first hunting regulation to not make sense and I am sure not the last. Heck, I don't use a range finder - not sure I would use lighted nocks... Too many hunting toys, too few $$$'s Maybe this season I'll pick up a range finder, wife permitting Haha!
As stated, "no loss really" - I simply do not understand how something that holds absolutely no advantage to taking game is barred due to a black and white 'general' stance. I think the vast majority appreciate the governance of no electronics attached to the bow, etc... The intent? Yet if one holds electronics in hand (range finder) - t'is a valuable asset...
Meh, not the first hunting regulation to not make sense and I am sure not the last. Heck, I don't use a range finder - not sure I would use lighted nocks... Too many hunting toys, too few $$$'s
Maybe this season I'll pick up a range finder, wife permitting Haha!It's just a controversial topic and always will be when new technology comes to the market. The world is evolving and hunters (mostly being conservative by nature--this is not a political adjective) want to keep hunting as traditional as possible. But I still want to use my new hunting rifle, it's a combination AK 57 oozie radar laser triple-barrel double-scoped(Burris Eliminators) heat-seekin shotgun. Still chasin' that "turdy point buck"! haha
Flynarrow
Well-known member
For those who dont care or get it......
1) The legislature takes over the role of the Fish and Game Commission even they know little about wildlife or hunting.
2) Lighted nocks is breaking down the line on electronics on bows and arrows that has been in place for many years. On the archery tech horizon are gps built into broadheads and lazers beam inside broadhead. etc.
3) I have shot a lot of critters with arrows over a lot of decades....most of the time I get a pass thru or the shoulder shears off the arrow on the first jump, leaving the nock on the ground.
4) They are visible best when shot in very low light conditions, like too early or too late to be hunting..
5) Tens of thousands of animals have been harvested successfully by a) shooting your effective shooting range, 2) not taking questionable shots, and 3) using some blood trailing and tracking skills. If you cant do that maybe you should stay home and watch football.
1) The legislature takes over the role of the Fish and Game Commission even they know little about wildlife or hunting.
2) Lighted nocks is breaking down the line on electronics on bows and arrows that has been in place for many years. On the archery tech horizon are gps built into broadheads and lazers beam inside broadhead. etc.
3) I have shot a lot of critters with arrows over a lot of decades....most of the time I get a pass thru or the shoulder shears off the arrow on the first jump, leaving the nock on the ground.
4) They are visible best when shot in very low light conditions, like too early or too late to be hunting..
5) Tens of thousands of animals have been harvested successfully by a) shooting your effective shooting range, 2) not taking questionable shots, and 3) using some blood trailing and tracking skills. If you cant do that maybe you should stay home and watch football.
dustinf
Active member
By the power of Gray Skull... I have the Power!
The mighty Wapiti falls at it's mere glow...
The mighty Wapiti falls at it's mere glow...
