Land Rehab Advice

[Hammsolo]

My wife and I recently purchased 40 of heaven in Montana about 25 minutes off of my hometown, Anaconda. This was a huge blessing due to the fact that I purchased it for pennies on the dollar from my Mom’s friend, with the agreement we would conserve and improve the land for native species. It is a dream setting.

The land sits at the very end of a two track leading into huge expanses of public land. It is primarily the lower area of a bowl filled with a large creek, beaver ponds, and riparian habitat. There are loads of aspen groves and fields, but there are lots of noxious weeds to deal with.

Our goal is to make our land prime habitat. We also are in contact with like minded neighbors, all 40 acre parcels or larger, and dream of getting them all on the same page. I am in contact with RMEF, and local government groups about weed control. I also want to support the rehabilitation of the adjoining public land. I am open to any and all ideas. Who could support this? What should we do? Tips, tricks, strategies? I am looking into bugs, sprays, prescribed burns… The aspen grows are in okay shape. There are loads of standing dead, and blow down.

This land will continue on after us also. We will do what it takes legally to make sure it is never subdivided, or developed. We will be building a cabin and small shop in a quite hidden location. There is a spot overlooking the bottom of the bowl that is tempting, but that wouldn’t walk the talk.

 

[Nameless Range]

Beautiful chunk of ground. I think you are on the right track.

 

[longbow51]

As far as weeds, if you're dealing with leafy spurge those flea beetles really work.

Leafy Spurge Flea Beetles (Aphthona spp) – Montana Biocontrol

www.mtbiocontrol.org

 

[Redmt]

I can't speak to your weeds and weed control but out here we have a terrible Star Thistle problem. It seems it will take over any piece of ground. We have started to spray with RM 43. It's expensive but it works.

 

[Jamen]

My wife and I recently purchased 40 of heaven in Montana about 25 minutes off of my hometown, Anaconda. This was a huge blessing due to the fact that I purchased it for pennies on the dollar from my Mom’s friend, with the agreement we would conserve and improve the land for native species. It is a dream setting.

The land sits at the very end of a two track leading into huge expanses of public land. It is primarily the lower area of a bowl filled with a large creek, beaver ponds, and riparian habitat. There are loads of aspen groves and fields, but there are lots of noxious weeds to deal with.

Our goal is to make our land prime habitat. We also are in contact with like minded neighbors, all 40 acre parcels or larger, and dream of getting them all on the same page. I am in contact with RMEF, and local government groups about weed control. I also want to support the rehabilitation of the adjoining public land. I am open to any and all ideas. Who could support this? What should we do? Tips, tricks, strategies? I am looking into bugs, sprays, prescribed burns… The aspen grows are in okay shape. There are loads of standing dead, and blow down.

This land will continue on after us also. We will do what it takes legally to make sure it is never subdivided, or developed. We will be building a cabin and small shop in a quite hidden location. There is a spot overlooking the bottom of the bowl that is tempting, but that wouldn’t walk the talk.

If you have any specific questions related to weeds i may be able to help or i will be able to find you an answer. I am a weed officer here in ND and been doing weed control for over 14 years now. If you know which species you are wanting to target and which you are wanting to keep that would be a big help. Shoot me a DM if you have any questions.

 

[SaskHunter]

As far as weeds, if you're dealing with leafy spurge those flea beetles really work.

Leafy Spurge Flea Beetles (Aphthona spp) – Montana Biocontrol

www.mtbiocontrol.org

I just volunteered last weekend with the Nature Convervancy to control leafy spurge with leafy spurge (flea) beetles. It's stupid simple and fun.

 

[kwyeewyk]

Looks like a very nice piece of ground, at least you aren't starting from scratch. If you haven't already, try to map the weeds by species and infestation density, use local classifications to prioritize what needs to be treated vs. controlled vs. eradicated based on class/infestation status. For example, a small patch of class A weeds should be targeted for eradication while a large infestation of class C the best hope might be to control with biological agents and maybe eradicate portions depending on feasibility. Large dense infestations might require a revegetation plan once the weeds are gone so you don't end up with different weeds replacing the old.

Good luck, hope you're able to share your process and results, interesting project.

 

[BigHornRam]

I would recommend taking part in one of these classes that works in your schedule. Invaluable information for a landowner like you.

Forest Stewardship Program - Forest Stewardship Program | Montana State University

www.montana.edu

 

[Gellar]

Looks like a nice piece of property and a good plan for making it even better. Familiarize yourself with cost share programs and property tax break options.
The only other thing I’d add is letting all hunttalkers who know the hunttalk secret code access the adjacent public through your parcel

 

[BuckRut]

Keep in mind that your soil has the potential to be fairly contaminated and that you have some crazy neighbors.

 

[Jamen]

Flea beetles are a very useful tool for leafy spurge! One cool facts the first flea beetles that were introduced in the USA started in the county i work in. I got to go out and see the original sites with the cages. The copper colored ones would most likely fare better your direction than the black. They tend to like the sandy more gravely soil. Our state biocontrol control contact says best time to collect is when the sunflower growing degree days are from 1100-1600. They will lay a few eggs a day and once they are done thats it. You will be moving empty bugs around that will not do much other than eat the foilage of the plant. The larva that feed on the roots is what will really make a dent in the population of plants.

 

[Luke_with_a_lab]

Flea beetles work in some instances and not in others. Ive put them on huge infestations of leafy spurge only to come back a couple years later and they all die out. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. I do noxious weed management for a living. Worked for the county and now work privately. That being said I didn't see any Leafy Spurge in your pictures which is a very good thing. In my experience you can never truly eradicate leafy spurge. Id guess being where you are your going to be dealing with a lot of Canada Thistle, Houndstounge, and maybe some knapweed. One thing Ive really come around to after doing this for so long is spraying your weeds in the fall after a frost or two. Seems crazy cause they look half dead but it causes far less collateral damage on desirable forage, you can use lower rates (less herbicide burn on grass), and for weeds like Canada Thistle or Leafy Spurge you can get your herbicide into their root system, which is the hardest part of the plant to kill.

 

[Jamen]

Flea beetles work in some instances and not in others. Ive put them on huge infestations of leafy spurge only to come back a couple years later and they all die out. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. I do noxious weed management for a living. Worked for the county and now work privately. That being said I didn't see any Leafy Spurge in your pictures which is a very good thing. In my experience you can never truly eradicate leafy spurge. Id guess being where you are your going to be dealing with a lot of Canada Thistle, Houndstounge, and maybe some knapweed. One thing Ive really come around to after doing this for so long is spraying your weeds in the fall after a frost or two. Seems crazy cause they look half dead but it causes far less collateral damage on desirable forage, you can use lower rates (less herbicide burn on grass), and for weeds like Canada Thistle or Leafy Spurge you can get your herbicide into their root system, which is the hardest part of the plant to kill.

I completely agree with spraying after a light frost!! Plants get into winter mode and try to draw the last bit they can from the ground and you trick them with chemical and their roots uptake all that herbicide. We sprayed a 30 acres chunk solid thistle right after a frost. 5 years later and only a few plants remain.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I would recommend:
1)Get familiar with your soils. Web Soil Survey is a good place to start.
2)Visit with your county weed and pest, most have cost share programs. You have probably already talked to them.
3)Connect with NRCS to discuss improvement ideas and at the very least see if and what Ecological Site Descriptions are available to help predict how treatments XYZ might impact plant community outcomes.
4)County conservation districts, who often work closely with NRCS, should be able to help coordinate a comprehensive plan that incorporates the goals of yours and your like-minded neighbors. Formal or not. They typically have very low administrative fees for grant pass-throughs and access to improvement dollars. They are more nimble than federal agencies.
5)Establish a simple, repeatable, vegetation monitoring protocol to quantitatively evaluate whether you are meeting your weed control, hydrologic, or other management goals. For some grant dollars this will be required. For some it will give you a HUGE leg up when you go to ask for project funds. Try to get your neighbors on a similar program.

Every county is a little different...some have a conservation district that can provide 3-5 in one stop. In some areas the NRCS might meet all of those needs, though usually more slowly. In some cases you'll need to bounce between entities.

@Mthuntr would probably be a good person to visit with about who specifically in your region can help fill those roles above.

 

[Irrelevant]

Man, that is cool. Talk about a helluva fun project

 

[Hammsolo]

Looks like a very nice piece of ground, at least you aren't starting from scratch. If you haven't already, try to map the weeds by species and infestation density, use local classifications to prioritize what needs to be treated vs. controlled vs. eradicated based on class/infestation status. For example, a small patch of class A weeds should be targeted for eradication while a large infestation of class C the best hope might be to control with biological agents and maybe eradicate portions depending on feasibility. Large dense infestations might require a revegetation plan once the weeds are gone so you don't end up with different weeds replacing the old.

Good luck, hope you're able to share your process and results, interesting project.

Awesome! I will. I will get to work On this mapping. I really appreciate this.

 

[Hammsolo]

I would recommend taking part in one of these classes that works in your schedule. Invaluable information for a landowner like you.

Forest Stewardship Program - Forest Stewardship Program | Montana State University

www.montana.edu

Awesome! I will look into it.

 

[Hammsolo]

Keep in mind that your soil has the potential to be fairly contaminated and that you have some crazy neighbors.

We are very lucky to be upwind from the smelter, and not up Clear Creek. My neighbor is a retired FBI Director that started as an agent. He’s from Scoby, is hardcore, and has a common vision with me. The other neighbors near me are seasonal and chill. We will be having the soil tested, but the water is pristine.

 

[Hammsolo]

Looks like a nice piece of property and a good plan for making it even better. Familiarize yourself with cost share programs and property tax break options.
The only other thing I’d add is letting all hunttalkers who know the hunttalk secret code access the adjacent public through your parcel

Thanks for the tips! Sweat equity?

 

[Hammsolo]

I would recommend:
1)Get familiar with your soils. Web Soil Survey is a good place to start.
2)Visit with your county weed and pest, most have cost share programs. You have probably already talked to them.
3)Connect with NRCS to discuss improvement ideas and at the very least see if and what Ecological Site Descriptions are available to help predict how treatments XYZ might impact plant community outcomes.
4)County conservation districts, who often work closely with NRCS, should be able to help coordinate a comprehensive plan that incorporates the goals of yours and your like-minded neighbors. Formal or not. They typically have very low administrative fees for grant pass-throughs and access to improvement dollars. They are more nimble than federal agencies.
5)Establish a simple, repeatable, vegetation monitoring protocol to quantitatively evaluate whether you are meeting your weed control, hydrologic, or other management goals. For some grant dollars this will be required. For some it will give you a HUGE leg up when you go to ask for project funds. Try to get your neighbors on a similar program.

Every county is a little different...some have a conservation district that can provide 3-5 in one stop. In some areas the NRCS might meet all of those needs, though usually more slowly. In some cases you'll need to bounce between entities.

@Mthuntr would probably be a good person to visit with about who specifically in your region can help fill those roles above.

Awesome information! I’m learning so much gentlemen. I will be there Tuesday working on journaling the plants.