Issue with floating the sight pin and release timing

[sdkhunter]

I read an article by Levi Morgan (who had adopted the idea as it sounds from Randy Ulmer) that went over the idea/theory of having several releases of the same make/model but setting their tension differently. So for example, have 3 releases, set one lighter, one medium and one a little heavier than the others - he would randomly grab one out of his pack while hunting or shooting - not really knowing which one he had... You could try something similar - even start with 2 different releases, one light & one med/heavier and then shoot a shot of two - take off your release, grab you arrows and put them in a small box or container and then randomly grab one out for the next 'group' of arrows... The key to the idea is muliple identical releases with different tension.. When I read it, I thought it sounded like a good idea - maybe something worth trying...

 

[WapitiBob]

At this years Vegas Levi's thumb was bouncing off his release button like spit on a griddle. When the pin is in the middle, that arrow is gone.

 

[Rzrbck918]

Glad you figured it out. The only thing I would add is you might consider a rear side stabilizer on the off side from your quiver to provide some balance.

 

[beginnerhunter]

I'm not sure what you guys are saying. I thought the concept with letting the pin "float" was that it is easier to maintain your aim while micromoving the pin rather than trying to hold it dead. I never try to release as the pin is moving over the bullseye. That, to me, is called a "drive by" and is associated with target panic. I've had target panic and done drive bys and never want to go near that again. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

[teej89]

Sounds like you’re getting ready to develop target panic, try blind bale shooting and if that doesn’t work maybe try a back tension release

I'm going to back him up 200%, this was my beginning symptoms and I overthought it like you did and really screwed myself for over a year. It took a year of frustration after I realized I had it and almost giving up just to get back to just hitting a pie plate at 20yds. I tried everything in the book and it's nothing mechanical at all, IT IS IN YOUR HEAD. You'll change something and be like ah yes I got it figured out! Then it'll rear it's head again, and again and again... I did draw lengths, weight, d-loops everything.... Also I wasn't taught how to shoot properly, please keep reading.

Forget about your pins and blank bale shoot and just focus on the release. The mind can only consciously(spelling?) focus on one thing at a time, your release has to become second nature, that's what blank bale shooting does. Now I'm far from a pro shooter but I got myself over target panic without anyone's help except for the book called "Idiot Proof Archery" by Bernie Pellerite. By the time your pin is on the dot and your mind registers that and sends the message to your brain to pull the trigger and then till your finger gets that message, guess what, your pin isn't on the dot anymore.

His main focus is to get you to focus on the target and not give a hoot about where your pin is. The metaphor he uses is, if you're going to go out a door and you want to grab the handle would you just look at the handle until you reach it with your hand or would you look at the handle then back to your hand then back to the handle? See what I'm getting at there? Just as you said well what about starting to shoot when you're about onto the bulls eye, well that's called drive-by shooting and will ultimately lead to target panic.

When I get settled on the dot, I forget the pins and just focus on splitting an atom on that bullseye knowing I'm anchored correctly. It takes a lot of time and patience for the release to become second nature but it’s so worth it when it finally clicks for ya.

Not to sound like a jerk but just reading the title of the thread screamed target panic. PM me if you have any questions, I'm no archery know-it-all but I know how tough it is to fight your way out of full blown target panic.

 

[Pucky Freak]

"Hi, my name is ElkFever, and I have t-t-t-target panic."

Thanks for the intervention, everyone.

I re-read everyone's responses about three times over and I get it, the way I am approaching this is the gateway drug to full blown target panic. It won't matter that I have the release length better than I did before. If I continue down this road, it's a long crawl out of overcoming target panic. Anticipating the shot, drive by shooting, or firing as soon as the pin covers the bull, it's all bad news.

I'm going to take my pins off, tighten up my release, and blank bale it until I feel comfortable with a consistent tension release. After that, focus on the target and eventually add the pins back in. I have a long time until archery season Oct 1st, so plenty of time to develop and reinforce good habits. The best thing about this is I have zero anxiety/frustration about the whole matter.

Yes, I did read the responses about quick releases, but this really isn't for me. While this is the most accurate way I can shoot today, I am confident I can eventually learn to shoot better by releasing with tension. I feel like anticipating the shot is an monster that can rear it's ugly head at any time, and not something I want to face down the road.

 

[teej89]

Haha glad you came around it’s not your equipment, if you didn’t I was gonna see if I could sell you my magical heat seeker arrows for a fair price. I could even lump in the ocean front property my buddy George owns, can’t remember where but you can see the sea from his front porch.

One tidbit about blank bail shooting, hey the target up to your eye level. You don’t wanna compromise form by shooting at one on the ground at 5ft. Start with a couple days of your eyes closed and then progress to your eyes open(no pins), all at 5ft.

I bought a bag I could hang and got some screw in hooks and hung it up in my closet(when I was single). Id wake up put my contacts in and shoot a half dozen arrows before I even started my day.

Once you get calm at 5ft with no pins I would put my pins back on at the end of every session and shoot 2-3 arrows at 5ft with pins and a bullseye. Every session I felt comfortable I bumped the number of arrows I shot at the end with pins until I was completely comfortable then I was ready to keep the pins on for good. From there it was backing up my yardage and that fall I killed my first bull at 45yds and January of that year when I started the program I couldn’t hold my pins on an 8” dot at 10 yards.

Best of luck, take it slow, you’re nowhere near where I was. If you have any questions let me know, the carter squeeze me release is a great training device(that’s the only device I’ll push). Also I apologize if I over explained myself, when I see these things I know what I went thru and man I wouldn’t want anyone going thru that.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Also I apologize if I over explained myself, when I see these things I know what I went thru and man I wouldn’t want anyone going thru that.

Not at all - I needed to hear it. Have the trigger travel at 3/8", eye level blank bale at 5 feet with eyes closed, then open. Still feels super smooth/comfortable and going very well. I put the pins back on at the end of my session today, moved to 8 yards, and shot five just to see if I was on the right track (cheating, I know). Pins will go back off and return to blank bale to reinforce new habits.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Why are you taking your pins out of your sight?

 

[teej89]

Not at all - I needed to hear it. Have the trigger travel at 3/8", eye level blank bale at 5 feet with eyes closed, then open. Still feels super smooth/comfortable and going very well. I put the pins back on at the end of my session today, moved to 8 yards, and shot five just to see if I was on the right track (cheating, I know). Pins will go back off and return to blank bale to reinforce new habits.

View attachment 108527

Also I didn't notice you just started shooting, so this is nowhere near as severe. TP is bad when you've been shooting for years and bad habits have been building up then you have to take the time to unlearn all those years of bad habits. You're just starting to shoot so you're still a blank canvas(lucky you!) however what we talked about will help you learn to shoot. I didn't learn from anyone, I just tried figuring it out on my own and that's where I developed bad habits, real bad habits. I still definitely recommend reading that book I referenced, it has a ton of information and it's a pretty easy read.

 

[beginnerhunter]

Also I didn't notice you just started shooting, so this is nowhere near as severe. TP is bad when you've been shooting for years and bad habits have been building up then you have to take the time to unlearn all those years of bad habits. You're just starting to shoot so you're still a blank canvas(lucky you!) however what we talked about will help you learn to shoot. I didn't learn from anyone, I just tried figuring it out on my own and that's where I developed bad habits, real bad habits. I still definitely recommend reading that book I referenced, it has a ton of information and it's a pretty easy read.

Man, I think about how screwed I would have been if I had developed target panic before the ubiquity of the internet made it easier to diagnose and treat. Probably would've struggled for months or years even before quitting from the frustration.

 

[119bowhunter]

Also I didn't notice you just started shooting, so this is nowhere near as severe. TP is bad when you've been shooting for years and bad habits have been building up then you have to take the time to unlearn all those years of bad habits. You're just starting to shoot so you're still a blank canvas(lucky you!) however what we talked about will help you learn to shoot. I didn't learn from anyone, I just tried figuring it out on my own and that's where I developed bad habits, real bad habits. I still definitely recommend reading that book I referenced, it has a ton of information and it's a pretty easy read.

Yep, definitely difficult trying to break bad habits, been there done that...sounds like the OP may have caught his before too much damage was done

 

[Pucky Freak]

Why are you taking your pins out of your sight?

So I can reinforce good habits of form. If I draw back and release exactly the same every time, the arrow goes where it should without pins.

The pin was distracting me and tempting me to release as soon as the pin covered the target, drive by shoot, and/or anticipate the shot. These are all terrible habits to develop, so I'm cutting off the source now.

The goal is to get so where the pin is second nature and I'm not paying much attention to it; where it lines up correctly, but my mind is focused on the target, and form is from muscle memory

 

[N2TRKYS]

So I can reinforce good habits of form. If I draw back and release exactly the same every time, the arrow goes where it should without pins.

The pin was distracting me and tempting me to release as soon as the pin covered the target, drive by shoot, and/or anticipate the shot. These are all terrible habits to develop, so I'm cutting off the source now.

The goal is to get so where the pin is second nature and I'm not paying much attention to it; where it lines up correctly, but my mind is focused on the target, and form is from muscle memory

That's a new one on me. I always hit the trigger when the pin is on my target. I never want my bow to go off surprisingly. Once my pin settles at my target, I hit the trigger. However, if you think that's what you need to do, then have at it.

The only thing I do differently than most, it seems, is draw quarter sized dots on my targets. That has improved accuracy moreso than shooting the bigger sized ones.

The more you practice with your pins, the more they'll become second nature. You'll get there.

Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[Pucky Freak]

That's a new one on me. I always hit the trigger when the pin is on my target. I never want my bow to go off surprisingly. Once my pin settles at my target, I hit the trigger. However, if you think that's what you need to do, then have at it.

A lot of people use this technique and it works just fine for them. Other people, like me, use this technique and then it degenerates into target panic, which just makes accuracy worse and worse over time, because your mind's way of fixing the issue results in an amplification of the mistakes. I currently move the trigger back really slowly and it goes off after about 4-5 seconds.

The only thing I do differently than most, it seems, is draw quarter sized dots on my targets. That has improved accuracy moreso than shooting the bigger sized ones.

I do something similar when aiming at an animal. I choose a spot of discoloration, ruffled bit of hair, or body contour, and then aim at that small target rather than the whole animal or some distance from the topline. I find I can make more accurate shots this way.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Thank you!

 

[N2TRKYS]

I currently move the trigger back really slowly and it goes off after about 4-5 seconds.

That would drive me crazy. Lol

 

[bullbugle307]

I know this isn't real technical advice, but I find that sometimes i'm simply overthinking my shooting and trying to be too perfect. That leads to holding longer til everythings perfect, but in that amount of time i'm becoming fatigued which makes me shoot worse than if I just try to keep it in the 9 ring at 40 yds (i'm usually pretty sore in the back from work to begin with).

I'm by no means an amazing shot, but Ive shot some of my best rounds (high 280s out of 300 over 30 arrows with my elk hunting set up at 40 yds) when I tell myself to just keep it in the yellow. I tend to shoot a lot more 10s that way than if I try to shoot for a 10x every time.

My goal isn't to shoot high 290s with my elk hunting set up. It's possible for some, but it's not reasonable for me. If i just try to average over 9 per arrow over 30 arrows at 40 yds with a heavy arrow and higher poundage, i'm totally good with that. And like I said that often leads to averaging 9.3-9.5 or higher per arrow. If I try to be perfect and shoot 10s every time, i'll invariably hit more 8s than if i just focus on keeping it in the 9, and that drags my average down closer to 9.0.

Maybe you're doing like me when I'm trying to be too perfect. Maybe you expect yourself to be perfect with a compound since you're coming from the trad world. You don't need to be perfect, you just need to be consistent with a reasonable level of accuracy. That'll be more then enough to kill game, or at least that's the way I look at it.

 

[dgc1963]

I believe the more you try to hold dead center you move the bow more I shoot where when I pull the bow IM above the bulls eye and as I slowly settle in to it I pause and release shooting 3inch groups at 60 yrds taught my fiance how to shoot doing it on a 3 count she shoots well this way too
I have no Idea where I got this from prob something I read 35 yrds ago but it works for me

 

[mikemulligan32]

Joel Turner from Shot IQ and John Dudley from Nockon are great resources for this kinda thing. Changed my shooting drastically. Joel's the brain doctor and John is the tech and form guy.

 

[Rackmastr]

Listening to Dudley is a great resource for sure.

I was a 'trigger slammer' for a while. Shot really great at targets and 3d doing it. And then missed a lot of great critters when hunting with the same approach.

I shoot a hinge now and its been far and away the best thing I've done for my shooting. I tossed around a couple options and ended up with a hinge. I've made some great kills with it and my confidence is super high.

Listen to some John Dudley podcasts and watch some videos of his. He's a great start to really talking about shot execution!