Interesting perspective on dams!

[Ithaca 37]

This guest editorial is worth reading if you like to fish or want to know how the dams have affected our wildlife.

"The Hells Canyon dams eliminated 80 percent of spawning habitat for Snake River fall Chinook salmon, now listed under the Endangered Species Act. In fact, the dams not only destroyed the huge chinook run in the Snake´s Marsing reach, but strong salmon runs in the Weiser and Malheur rivers, and smaller runs in the Owyhee, lower Payette and Boise rivers. Idaho Power Co. might deny it, but everyone understands the direct role these dams played in the loss of salmon populations."

http://www.idahostatesman.com/Opinion/story.asp?ID=40290

This editorial touches on the role of the power companies some of you are so concerned about!

Read this and then defend them!

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithaca,

Disconnect your power hypocrite!

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

What's a "power hypocrite" and where do I disconnect it?

What's wrong with promoting other energy sources and getting rid of environmentally destructive ones? I want those salmon and steelhead runs back.

Read the editorial:

" “There is a difference between being a pig and a hog. This is being a hog — the companies want it all.”"

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-22-2003 09:56: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[BigHornyRam]

IT,

Go ahead and blame the big bad power companies. Typical liberal spin.

It's not my fault I'm a druggie, its the drug dealers fault.

It's not my fault I'm a fat hog, it's McDonalds.

It's not my fault that I have cancer even though I smoke 3 packs a day for 40 years. It's the tobacco companies fault.

Ect.....

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, I wouldn't call it a "liberal spin". I'd call it an intelligent opinion--based on research, data, knowledge, common sense and facts.

For your information, I'm a true conservative brought up in the most conservative beliefs and traditions. And one thing that means is conserving natural resources. There's a lot of wildeyed right wing lunatics out there who think they're conservatives, but us true conservatives know they're wackos!

I suspect you're one of the wackos, but if you get back on your medication you might be OK.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-23-2003 09:02: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paul,

I have never heard of anything OTHER than the Hells Canyon complex dams being attributed as the cause of the total DESTRUCTION of the Salmon runs in the Snake (Marsing Reach), Owyhee, Malheur, and Weiser Rivers. Idaho Power is not guilty by assocation. They are guilty because of their direct actions.

The original FPC licnese to Idaho Power to develop the three dams required a program to conserve the salmon and steelhead runs on the Snake River. The goal of the FPC was passage of the fish around the dams to their spawning grounds. The dams were too high for fish ladders. Upstream, fish were to be trapped and trucked around the dam. To handle downstream migrants, the company adopted a plan which involved stringaing a net of plastic mesh across the resiovoir a mile up river from the dams. Barges with siphon tpumps were anchored along the net to caputure the fingerlings. In 1962 the net was scrapped and fish runs above Brwonlee, up the Weiser, Payeete and Boise Rivers became a thing of the past.

To Summarize:
1. Salmon used to migrate to the Upper Snake, Boise, Weiser, etc. rivers

2. Idaho Power built Brownlee Dam

3. Idaho Power installed fish nets and barges to truck the Salmon

4. Idaho Power's nets did not work.

5. Idaho Power removed the fish preservation efforts.

6. Salmon were removed from 100's of miles of native habitat by the creation of the dams.

Nobody is asking Idaho Power to breach those dams. The only request is to ask Idaho Power to live up to the original license. Seems fair.....

 

[BigHornyRam]

Elkgunner,

By using Idaho Power to power YOUR house or business, you are supporting what they did to the salmon runs. By patronizing businesses that are powered by Idaho Power, you are indirectly supporting the end of the salmon run up the Snake and it's tributaries. Disconnect your power and stop using businesses that do, if you want to wash your hands from this.

Otherwise help Idaho Power come up with some workable solutions to repair the past damage done. (P. S. Sueing them is not a workable solution.)

Paul

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paul,

Not true, not true at all.... Each month when I pay my bill, I enclose the following letter.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Dear Sirs,
Here is my check for the Power that I used in your meter, last month. As I have for every previous month, I would like to request you continue to supply my house, and all business I patronize with power from coal fired plants in Montana. Please do not send me power from any of your fish killing dams. Additionally, please do not take my check as an endorsement of your inadequate protection of our Wild Salmon and Steelhead. If you must seek approval, please view my check as an endorsment of school safety progams and your radio advertisements in Spanish, warning farmworkers not to raise sprinkler pipes into high voltage lines. Regards, Elkgunner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, as you can see, I have a clear conscience, and continue to fight the winning battles....

Also, as you may or may not be aware, in Idaho, we allow Idaho Power to operate as a Monopoly, free from competition. In return for this sweetheart deal, we have told them that we will regulate their every breath, via the Public Utilities Commission (PUC). And via the PUC, there are many hearings and meetings, to consider every application of Idaho Power.

So, to work within the system, (unlike your vigilante ideas), one is required to effect change to Idaho Power via PUC hearings and Judges. Sorry, but if all else fails, the lawsuit will win, assuming you have the law on your side.

er

 

[BuzzH]

Paul, we have come up with a workable solution...your severely limited and obtuse thinking is clouding your ability to reason.

The PATH study clearly outlined workable solutions to every lame excuse you've come up with to NOT breach dams.

You whine about high taxes, nows the time to act...breach dams and we wont have to spend another couple billion tax dollars on failed "salmon friendly" dams, subsidized grain transportation, subsidized irrigation, dam maintainence, dredging, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Dont worry Paul, rest assured that the Snake River dams are history...its only a matter of time.

 

[BigHornyRam]

Buzz,

I know it's hard for you and your limited comprehension to stay on topic. The dam breaching was another thread. We are talking about the Hells Canyon dams on this one. Not the dams on the lower Snake. If you are indeed talking about breaching all the Snake River dams, well you better update the data from the studies you've provided. Maybe thats why enviros like you are never taken seriously. Your agenda is too easily detected. You need to learn to be more of a sneaky weasel like Ithaca if you want to get results. Get a few dams breached before you start bragging about breaching all of them. As elkgunner pointed out, that would be an extreme enviromental position. You still haven't moved forward with the breaching bond idea. What's the matter, too cheap to put your money were your mouth is?

Paul

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-27-2003 06:55: Message edited by: Paul C ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, I'd be careful about the name calling if I were you. After all, you've already had to admit you didn't know the facts about the "bird hunters" you claimed chased your buddies rams. I was real nice about not pointing out that you were the liar, not I. And that was even after you called me a liar and then had to admit you were wrong.

You're so ignorant about the dam issues it's a waste of time talking to you about them. Until you educate yourself about them you'll just continue looking foolish.

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithaca,

Elkgunner said he was going to look into this issue and let us know what he found out. Since he didn't post back on the subject, I'm guessing that he found out that your sheep pals are a couple of unethical liars. How about it Gunner, what did you hear?

Elkgunner,

Thats the problem with regulated utilities, too much politics. It would seem to me that Idahoans have voted cheap electricity over the welfare of their salmon. Maybe you can convince Idaho Power that Idahoans would be willing to pay more for electricity, if the salmon runs could be brought back. Could be tough to convince them however. This Idaho guy told me he would rather piss his money away on a scum bag lawyer, then to pay more for electricity.

Paul

 

[Moosie]

PAul, Elkgunner was in Japan ALL last week and Headed for Hawaii today for the rest of the Week, that boy has the job we all want

That being said, I'm with Paul on this one, I like the Dams, It makes lakes so I can Ride my boat in and my 4-wheeler around !!!!! You other guys are a little COO-KOO !!!

 

[cjcj]

elkgunner i`ll bet anything your letter[in electric bill] is opened by either machine or someone who throw`s it in the trash, and top manager`s never see it! but at least it is an effort, try calling and ask for the upper mgmt.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paul,

I haven't had the chance to talk to my buddy about the Sheep thing. And now I have forgotten yours and Ithica's positions, so at least I won't be biased in my reporting. I did talk to the buddy last week for about 2 minutes, and we made tenative plans to go have a beer this weekend. I'll try and remember to ask, if we get together. I also have a Pot-luck planning party on a raft trip down Hells Canyon in 10 days, and I have a wine-tasting Fund Raiser for a bunch of my Environmental Attorney friends. I will be bringing another friend, who is a corporate attorney, and hopefully we will see the checkbook open up, and more funds will flow toward breaching the dams. As Moosie said, I have been a bit busy. Last week I was in Idaho for 4 nights, and went Bear hunting on 3 of them.

Moosie,
Great to see you posting down on Sportsmans Issues. Maybe everybody will be nice to you, and not chase you back to Curling Iron or Erotics/Hogs...

And Moosie, trust me on this one, but MOVING water is ALWAYS more fun than still water..

CJCJCJCJCJC,
Thanks for bursting my bubble....

I thought somebody was reading that letter each month.

Now I don't know what to do.....

Paul,
Here is a better idea (and I am only saying that because it is mine

)... How about if you offer 5 dam sites in Montana to Idaho Power. Obviously guys in Montana like dams, and we contentuous ones in Idaho don't. We tear our dams down, you build replacement ones in MT. Everybody gets what they want. How about one on the Yellowstone, Missouri, Blackfoot, Madison, and Big Hole River?