im ebarrased to be a hunter in montana(RANT)

[300stw]

a rant about hunters, and i am one,,,,

the number of law breaking hunters i see virtually everday is sad,,

from the phesant hunters walking on county rds shooting roosters that flush from the ditch

or jumping out of trucks to ground sluice them in the snow, private land or my driveway, doesent matter
i called 3 landowners last week, tell them you have guys tresspassing and deer hunting,,,
there like, im so tired of this crap,,,,theres no end, i cant even get permission to hunt there,
honestly i dont even like to ask anymore,,,

the deer hunters driving any were they like block mgmt or private, dont matter, chasing deer shooting out of vehicles, trespassing and shooting on private,,,

i work with hundreds of landowners over the years for easements, last week a guy told me he had 28 calls one day for permission, he said no everytime, and is still chasing people off his land,,,
heard this many many times this year

i use tip mont, warden number is in my phone

were does it end,, were do people become so entitled they feel they can do whatever they want

if wardens were increased 10 fold today, would it help,,,,if every sheriff deputy was a reserve warden , and could be hired with a pool of money, to help with citations for tge top 5 violations would that be a deterrent?
any suggestions , thoughts, or let it be,,,,

end of rant,,, thks for listening, or not,,

 

[Nameless Range]

I listened. Though the types of hunters that are really prevalent on this forum sometimes seem antagonistic to landowners, I feel for them. To be bugged via phone and in person like your neighbors are missionaries with amnesia and it's one week before the election for 4 months would be exhausting.

One thought I believe in is a significantly higher bar for folks to hunt. Hunters Ed should be more comprehensive, in person, focus on things like this more, and require continuing education. Also, our seasons are too damn long. And this exacerbates what land owners deal with.

 

[Nameless Range]

And yes, I believe we need orders of magnitude more wardens on the landscape. I have never encountered one while hunting, and I think I hunt more than the average person, and have hunted Montana for 30 years.

 

[Ben Lamb]

While this opinion piece was about elk, it features some similar issues. We've heard time & time again from hunters & landowners about this, and there are programs to help. Will Montanans try and address this during the session? Who knows, but there are models out there to look at for better outcomes.

Guest column: Montana lawmakers can help solve elk management

“Protecting our way of life means protecting the things that make Montana, Montana.”

www.bozemandailychronicle.com

Explore programs that match ethical, competent hunters with private landowners.

In many areas of Montana with large populations of elk, landowners who desire to have elk harvested on their properties view recreation as secondary to harvesting elk on their property. These landowners are often willing to provide access to ethical, proficient hunters who have the skills required to effect a harvest. Currently, there’s only one source or program to recruit such hunters, Montana’s Master Hunter Program. Additional advanced hunter education programs that increase hunter competence, ethical hunting behavior and knowledge of agriculture and land stewardship need to be developed and implemented.

 

[COEngineer]

Trespassing should definitely be handled by sheriffs and game wardens. And there are presumably a lot more sheriffs/deputies than game wardens. If that's not happening, I would think you have a much better chance of lighting a fire under your local sheriff's rear end than the State's (game wardens').

I don't know how the numbers compare between CO and MT, but there definitely are not enough law enforcement officers (LEOs) in CO, even if you include the feds.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

While this opinion piece was about elk, it features some similar issues. We've heard time & time again from hunters & landowners about this, and there are programs to help. Will Montanans try and address this during the session? Who knows, but there are models out there to look at for better outcomes.

Guest column: Montana lawmakers can help solve elk management

“Protecting our way of life means protecting the things that make Montana, Montana.”

www.bozemandailychronicle.com

$450!!??

 

[Ben Lamb]

$450!!??

That's for Master Hunter. It's expensive and while it's a great program and scholarships are available, supply outstrips demand, and as I understand it, One Montana loses money on this program, so it's not like they're making bank. Ravalli County Fish & Wildlife Assn has a similar program that's a lot less expensive.

CO just passed a law in 21 to add Hunter's Education to the 7th grade curriculum. Other states are looking at ways to improve hunter ethics as well. When folks were going rounds on the youth mentor hunting, this issue was brought up as a possible side-effect to removing the requirement for all to take hunter's education before fielding a rifle or shotgun.

COVID brought about only on-line hunter's ed along with a massive spike in new hunters, etc. If we can't see that loosening the rules on hunter's ed & ethics has a deleterious effect on the quality of hunter in the field, then maybe we shouldn't get access to private land.

Returning to a mandatory field day, adding enhanced hunter's education through game agencies as a requirement for some of the better private lands enrolled in access programs, etc should be on the table for discussion. If states could adopt a Master Hunter program, PR dollars could be used to help fund that. Much better use of funding than planting roosters or trying to pay wardens with it.

 

[JMG]

Hunters need to police themselves ... meaning ... turn in those hunters that are in violation of the law and FWP Regulations and speak up to someone who is spouting off about something that may be non-ethical. I think it's our civic duty as a citizen. I recommend not putting yourself in a confrontational situation, but nonetheless speak up and report violations, even if law enforcement doesn't follow through with prosecuting. Some individuals need to be told or remined that it's not "okay" in some instances. Unfortunately, there is not enough game wardens to cover the State of Montana effectively.

 

[4ohSick]

What about some sort of CE (continuing education) requirement? Like every 5 years, hunters are required to take a short online course on Hunter ethics and pass a short test to buy a license. Might not make much of a difference, but every little bit counts.

 

[BirdManMike]

Completely agree and feel the same way. It seems to get worse every season. Every truck has an ATV/UTV these days - they arent all bad (probably most arent), but with it the illegal offroad travel just keeps increasing, trucks driving over state sections or even Block Management, too. Block Management areas go away or become more and more restrictive, year after year, and who can blame them?

Ive had people I know, people who I would otherwise think were respectable, law abiding citizens, tell me, 'oh yeah, I shot an elk at state section X a few years ago - it was really cold and snowy, so I just drove my truck right up to it'. Id report their ass if I saw them, no matter how close a relationship we had. What else can we do when we see this stuff, other than call it in? There isnt enough disincentive not to behave like an asshole - there is little chance of enforcement actually catching someone in the act, or with enough evidence for to issue citation, because there just isnt enough enforcement.

Its really disheartening.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Hunters need to police themselves ... meaning ... turn in those hunters that are in violation of the law and FWP Regulations and speak up to someone who is spouting off about something that may be non-ethical. I think it's our civic duty as a citizen. I recommend not putting yourself in a confrontational situation, but nonetheless speak up and report violations, even if law enforcement doesn't follow through with prosecuting. Some individuals need to be told or remined that it's not "okay" in some instances. Unfortunately, there is not enough game wardens to cover the State of Montana effectively.

I 100% agree with this, but most of the time when you inform them of the issue, they already know and don't care. They know they can be gone before the game warden even show up. I few year back I caught a guy on a cycle in a public piece and told him you know this is illegal and he says to me, you got a badge? They know....and he had no plate on the cycle so I could not even report him.

 

[rjthehunter]

I've had 4 occasions now this year where there were random people wondering around on our different properties. A couple happened last weekend, people just walking through the woods with their shotguns looking for deer. Posted private property... Earlier this year, had an ATV with 3 people on it in the middle of one of our properties. 800 acres and they somehow got a wheeler in there and were just running our trails. What can a guy do? You find someone and say wait here, I'm calling the police?

 

[huntin24/7]

I think it’s a combination of a general lack of respect anymore combined with how the states big game hunting mostly is in a decline causing people to take more risks to become successful. Also, I think some people are influenced by social media thinking they have to shoot a big buck/bull or kill something to show success. I don’t think you can really blame one specific thing on this behavior. There’s certainly no justification for it though.

 

[Nutrioso]

Several years ago during a ten day elk hunt in Idaho we witnessed guys shooting at elk from the highway into private land river bottom; a cow and calf elk shot and left to rot; a fence cut so some guy could get his ATV through; and a group of several guys tearing up a posted hiking trail with ATVs. It’s not just a Montana issue. I don’t know what the solution is but education and stepped up enforcement seem like good ideas.

 

[peterk1234]

I was hunting a block management piece a few weeks ago. I had harvested a deer so it was well into dark by the time I got near my truck. I saw no less than three vehicles going ever so slowly with lights. I heard four shots while hiking out. I couldn't believe it.

I just took the land stewardship course, figuring it wouldn't hurt and I could share with land owners when I ask for permission. The course spoke about the tip hotline. The number is now in my phone. Next time I'm calling.

It's up to us to report the bad apples. The wardens are spread thin and they need your help.

As for mandatory training every few years. That's a joke. Bad people are bad people. It's not a training issue. They know what they are doing. They just don't care. No amount of training can fix that. But a ten thousand dollar fine just might.

 

[406dn]

Hunting does not build character nearly as much as it reveals it. I have reported several violations to tip mont. Not once has there been any sort of feedback concerning the violation.

The most common violation I see when bird hunting is out of state hunters hunting the ditch banks next to roads. The most common violation I see big game hunting is motorized vehicles where they do not belong. I've witnessed each for a long time, don't know if it's getting worse. I have long thought it was plenty bad.

 

[Deleted member 40728]

The biggest rule breakers I tend to encounter by a large margin are always residents of the state. Very rarely do I ever come across NR openly and clearly violating the rules.

I feel if someone is willing to put forth the time, money, and effort to go out of state then they probably aren’t looking to break the law as soon as they arrive. Just my take on it.

 

[300stw]

by far the biggest law breakers for bird hunters are non residents in the areas i see, and blatantly so,,,and numerous guys,,, mainly shooting from county roads and shooting in the no shooting zones of block management,
2 landowners in block , have hundreds of phesants in there tree rows next to there homes, grain bins, barns, horses ect,

they both run numerous people off , almost daily, very few are residents of montana, and they both call tip mont. when the guys are nasty about leaving ,,

 

[manitou1]

Denying Wisconson folks NR licenses would stop 90% or more of our violations down here in the areas we hunt. Not a joke.
We all talk about it. My hunting buddies, my wife, guides and ranchers. I even had a Wisconson friend over two nights ago (now a WY resident) and he started in on the rudeness and game violations of the Wisconson folks hunting here... which is a large majority of the NR in our areas.
My wife and I met three friends from WA state for dinner a couple of weeks ago. They have hunted this area for many years.
A good portion of our evening conversation started off with them asking: "What is with all the rude Wisconson folks now? We are constantly seeing them shoot from the road, cut off other hunters, tresspassing and illegally driving on public ground."
My hunting buddies and I can call it with incredible accuracy when we observe lack of etiquette or illegal hunting activity. The blanket comment: " More Wisonson folks... wanna bet?" We are nearly 100% on our guesses once when we can ID the plates or people from previous occurrances. So many violators we seldom call it in any more.

 

[BirdManMike]

by far the biggest law breakers for bird hunters are non residents in the areas i see, and blatantly so,,,and numerous guys,,, mainly shooting from county roads and shooting in the no shooting zones of block management,
2 landowners in block , have hundreds of phesants in there tree rows next to there homes, grain bins, barns, horses ect,

they both run numerous people off , almost daily, very few are residents of montana, and they both call tip mont. when the guys are nasty about leaving ,,

I completely agree in terms of bird hunters, just as I agree with @Slm864 in terms of big game.

There can be an attitude of 'well, I am only able to get my dog on birds a week or two out here per year, so I have to do what I have to do', whether its illegal, unethical, or just plain bad lessons for their dog. I have been told this in the past, and could only shake my head. Most of the time, other than trespassing, its just plain crappy hunting - there are no pheasants in my valley, nor do I travel to hunt them much at all, so I dont really see a lot of the ditch shooting behavior, though I can point to some Block Management further east that specifically has in the restrictions 'No Pheasant Hunting Allowed' because of this nonsense.