Hunting Ethics / Sportsmanship

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JVon13

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After hashing a situation with a few of my hunting friends, I thought I would turn this question over to the members of this forum for your feedback.

This year, on opening day of big game season, my son and I decided to pursue Mule deer in one of our favorite areas. This area is a mountain forest service area that is a large bowl. It has thousands of acres of hunting ground, with several ridges running from a higher elevation to a common lower meadow.

Through prior experience and scouting, we knew the best opportunity to connect with larger bucks was to head up one of the ridges located in towards the middle of the drainage. Well before sunup on opening day we began our hike up the ridge to gain elevation. At the time we started out, we were the only hunters in the basin. Approximately a half hour after beginning our hiking, we can hear and see two other hunting parties drive their four wheelers up to the bottom of the canyon. We could then see their head lamps below us at a much lower elevation. In order to let them know where we were, we faced the bottom and flashed our headlamp several times. At this point, one of the parties headed off onto a separate ridge that angled in a direction far from us. The other party continued up the same ridge we were on. Two separate times we again flash our head lamps down the ridge in their direction, letting them know we were on it. The hunters continued up the ridge we were on.

My son and I attained the desired elevation to wait for shooting light. We split up, with approximately 200 yards between us. Approximately 20 minutes later I look over at my son and the two hunters that were coming up behind us passed approximately 20 yards to the other side of my son, looked at him and did not say a word. They then continued slightly higher and set up (approximately 75 yards from him) and began their scoping as daylight was coming on. Shortly after shooting light, both the hunters began firing at mule deer bucks that were to their side of the canyon. Those shots were at bucks approximately 350 yards away. One buck was shot. My son was well within range from the bucks, but declined to shoot at them for two reasons. One, they were not big enough to be something he would care to shoot the opening day. Two, even if he had decided to take the shot, it would have been safe, but still the other hunters were below him and he would have been shooting in their direction.

My question is, was it ethical or of good sportsmanship for those two hunters to follow us up the ridge and set up in such close proximity? If you knew where bucks have been hanging out but you see someone ahead you that is going to the spot you want to go to do you disregard them and walk through their set up in hopes of seeing deer first? Or, do you alter your route to avoid the hunters and try to attain another glassing vantage point? What do you think? And what would you have done? Thanks for the feedback.
 
If at all possible I think it is important to talk with other hunters in the area so both parties aren't guessing eachother's intentions. They should have stopped and asked your son's intentions.
 
Ethics involve my decisions and how I hunt. Other hunters choosing not to exhibit sportsmanship in their conduct is beyond my control.

Having said that, their behavior was very rude. I'd have been upset, but I'm not the type to provoke a confrontation so I'd move. The woods is too big to share a little piece of it with people like that.

It happens. You have to deal with it and move on.
 
The same thing happened to me last year....a guy and two teen kids came marching up behind us while we were moving slowly in hopes of catching elk out feeding. The guy stopped and asked what our plan was and I told him and he said well "That's our plan too....see ya" and he marched up the trail in front of us. In amazement we watched him spook an entire herd of elk out of an opening and he never saw them. Made me so mad!!!! The only good think about it was that his kids were so embarrassed by their dad's actions. The kids knew better than the parent.

Sorry this happened to you. There are so many ignorant and just plain rude people in this world and many call themselves hunters. We all just have to live with it and not lose our cool in the woods. Too many bad things can go wrong when guns are involved. Good luck the rest of the year.
 
Seriously?

Hash this out with your hunting buddies all you want. To answer your question I would first see that the other peoples' side of the story is first.....then I would still refrain from uploading a story like this on the internet.

My friend and I were sitting in that same spot you were the day before the hunt. We pulled out of the canyon at 11:30 and there was nobody coming or going so we decided to go back to the same spot the next morning. (Next time I'll leave a stake in the ground and have a blinking light on it to warn you to stay miles away from "my spot".)

As we entered the canyon with our quads in the dark we noticed that there was a camp at the bottom that had been set up since we left the day before. That was yours we find out later. There were also two guys with quads in front of us. Those were the guys we were trying to give space to, as we had to clue who's camp it was and where they(you) would be headed.

As soon as they went right at the bottom of the canyon.....we went left. As we got further up the hill we did see your light. That was on our left. Beings that shooting light was about maybe 15 minutes away.....what were we supposed to do?

We now had people with rifles on our left and right so we tried to stay as far "in the middle" as possible. If I could have got back down the mountain and over to plan B, C, or D I would have. Like I said.....we were there the morning before when nobody else was and knew exactly where the deer were going to be.

We saw your son sitting on his butt 5 minutes after shooting light so we went as far as we could to his right. He never tried to get our attention or talk to us either. We just walked past him because we figured he couldn't see the deer. Keep in mind there were the other guys to worry about as well. Out of all the hunters on the hill we ended up being in the best position for shooting. Mostly because we stayed mobile and used the terrain to our advantage.

Even as we were getting ready to shoot I was thinking the other guys to the right were going to shoot at the deer we getting set up on. That was the only sense of urgency. And if you have a problem with the caliber of deer that we were shooting, then why do you care anyway?

The last deer that was killed by me or a friend of mine in that canyon was 2010.....with a bow for crying out loud.....so If you want more space and bigger challenge than go do that.



Trust, me nobody was trying to pull any fast ones over your eyes or cause any problems. We were stuck between two groups of hunters and daylight was coming fast. Mule deer bucks usually don't hang around long after shooting light last time I checked. We were the closest to the deer, we had been there the morning before scouting and had just as much right to be there as you did.

Ask the three camps in the canyon next door about us. We gave them all the space in the world. We were leaving the canyon where there were people to an area where there were none. You guys came and set up camp since we had been in the exact spot that same morning.

Besides, call the man who's hunted there the the longest. I called him the week before and made sure he was going to be at the Bobcat football game out of respect of the area. Once I knew he wasn't going to be there is when I made the call.....otherwise I would have been 3-4 hours East of where we were like I'd been for the past 4 years.

Sorry you feel the way that you do, but hunting ethics mean a great deal to me. I have and always will consider myself an ethical hunter.

I just got got back from a 3rd season Colorado deer hunt helping out a friend who has waited 4 years as a resident for this tag. I found him a really nice deer and out of hast he smoked a forked horn and not the 175" deer I was looking at. There was nobody from miles around. We could have done what lots of people do out in the woods and dropped that big buck. Nope, we watched that big deer walk over the hill and we tagged that 18 month old buck with pride because it was the right thing to do.

You want to talk next year's opening day over...then call me. You know who has my number.

But don't ever question my ethics or those close to me with whom I hunt.......


By the way......nice first post. Why don't you help other's out on this site like I have for the past few years and not start out with calling someone out with post Number 1?
 
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had the same thing happen to me in CO elk hunting and also in MN deer hunting where i hunted a state land draw hunt, you were not supposed to put stands up till day of, i was set up 1 hour before light and 2 flashlights came towards me i shined my headlamp at them and they keep coming one light left and i got down and walked over to the other he was 41 steps away and had a stand already up and said this is public land i moved by 9am, i think its BS and not sportsman to do this, really pissed me off
 
Stuart is a good guy, respectful, and I have no doubt he had most of the bucks in that area scouted before the opener.
 
I second the ethics of Stuart. You have got to now that your post will be seen by those that hunted that canyon opening morning and you better be ready for the other side of the story. I also now the other atv party and will vouch for their ethics. (they also harvested a respectable buck, btw!) Just because you camped in the canyon doesn't give you first dibs on the entire canyon. If you hunt public, be ready for company.
 
Ah.. the plot thickens.:) I'll check back after my hunt tomorrow to see how it turns out. I just hope nobody is in my spot. :)
 
Two anonymous people on the internet protecting their reputations...

I don't know how old he was, but unless he gave you the finger, walking by and setting up close to someone who is already there is pretty aggressive/rude. You could have made all of this a non-issue and maybe made a friend with a short stop. But if gettin yer buck is really that important...

This is why I hate the opener.
 
I hesitate to post on this topic.

Public hunting.

First few years of hunting. You hunt the same canyons year in and out. So do other hunters.

Often, I would see hunters on every point.

It is not unethical. it is public hunting.

Do not bitch. Hike in farther if you are uncomfortable. You will also haul out deer or elk much further.

This is life of public hunting. Do not give me ethics. A public hunter has the right to hunt on public land. Sorry if another hunter has the same plan, It happns.
 
JVon,

I'd clean the sand out of my mangina and deal with it. It's public land hunting, emphasis on the public. I sure as hell wouldn't heed to supposed headlamp morse code in the dark, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to. Someone shot a 6x6 bull I was closing in on on opening day. I didn't cry. I congratulated the hunter and went looking for more elk. Such is life.
 
we all have different opinions on this,but I agree with wapitibob.Think I personally would have helped the young hunter take a buck if I had no chance to get anywhere else in time.My opinion is based on the fact that I'm pushing 50 and it really not that important for me to get a deer
I do see the other guys point of view as well as he had no options at that time other then .leave,and he was there to hunt as well.If you hunt public, you have to expect this to happen
 
My question is, was it ethical or of good sportsmanship for those two hunters to follow us up the ridge and set up in such close proximity? If you knew where bucks have been hanging out but you see someone ahead you that is going to the spot you want to go to do you disregard them and walk through their set up in hopes of seeing deer first? Or, do you alter your route to avoid the hunters and try to attain another glassing vantage point? What do you think? And what would you have done? Thanks for the feedback.

It's unethical for you to make such a whiney post and unsportsmanlike to entice us to waste valuable time reading it. It's up to you to escape hunters, atvs, and people competing to shoot at dink-horn deer. Have a little cheese. You're welcome for the honest feedback.
 
Postholing through deep snow over two miles in the Tobacco Root Mtns, I finally caught up with the elk and was setting up for a shot when boom! .... a hunter jumped off his ATV on a trail near the elk, dropped a fat cow, and the elk quickly departed out of my view. Initially upset, when I discovered this was a Tennessee hunter, hunting elk in Montana for the first time, his enthusiasm and joy at success overwhelmed me and reminded me of the real meaning of "public" land and public hunting. We worked together dressing out and loading his elk and it was "almost" as fun as if I had taken the elk.

Now I try to instill in my grandkids the appreciation of any hunter's success, as well as your own, and the importance of perpetuating that appreciation of hunting ... but also the basic ethics involved.
 
When I say kid I mean his son who is at least my age and spends plenty of time in the woods. My buddy and I stayed as far to the right of his fathers flashing light as we could. The son was sitting in a little nook well to the right of his father and the only way we saw him was after we had located deer, shed our heavy packs, and were on the stalk. Either he didn't see a deer big enough or he hadn't located the group of bucks from the does to still be sitting where he was .....and in the position he was. It's not like he was lying in the prone position ready to shoot. This took us farther away from Von Trap and his son. At this point I was only concerned that shots from the other guys were going to ring off so we got to 350 and got set up.

Quit acting like I pushed some 12 year old down on the way up the trail. We were scouting in the exact same spot and only went back because by noon on Friday nobody was in the canyon.

Crazy thing is we talked to this man and his son on the way out for a half hour and they didn't seen to be mad then. Maybe it was the bud light they were having for breakfast.


Those of you who weren't there ......keep quiet. Those of you who know me well enough thanks for your support. We tried to give both parties on the hill as much ethical space as possible. We found the deer first and made the proper adjustments to be successful.


If you feel stepped on I'm sorry. I was sitting where you were 24 hours before glassing for hours. It was not on purpose but with where we were and how fast shooting light was coming I wasn't going to go 900 vertical ft back to the quad to go to a different plan. Besides the deer ended up closer to the position we went to in order to avoid you in the end anyway.
 
I've already posted it in my own thread. 155" if you add the broke main beam. Not a big deer or a big deal. There were 2-3 more in the same class.


I wasn't trying to step on toes. I even called a guy whose hunted there since the 60s to make sure he wasn't going to be there. Other than that I gave as much space to one group as the other since I got caught in the middle.

I wanted to tag out opening day so I could go to Colorado and help a friend on his hunt. Plus a have a nephew coming up in a week to hunt so I'm helping him.


Trust me......we will be three counties away....all the while dealing with other public land hunters and getting along with them as best I can.
 
This is kind of a humorous read.

Those of you who weren't there ......keep quiet. Those of you who know me well enough thanks for your support.

You should have wrote, "Those of you who weren't there ......keep quiet. Those of you who know me and weren't there either . . . . thanks for your support"

As Rodney Kings said, "Can't we all just get along?"
 
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