HR 1581 and the RMEF

[Ben Lamb]

Holy cow. I just got back from 2 days of listening sessions in Augusta, Choteau, Great Falls and Helena for the Rocky Mountain Front Heritage Act. We had over 400 people show up to hear what we had to say about desginating small portions of the Front as wilderness and others as a new designation called a Conservation Management Area.

Out of the 69 people who spoke, 58 were in favor. 11 opposed. I'd say that's a mandate from the people to move forward with protecting critical hunting grounds.

As for those damned greenies that support protecting the back country, here's a list of 270 outedoor companies and hunter/angler groups that do:
http://www.trcp.org/assets/pdf/American_Sportsmen_Banking_on_the_Backcountry_8_2011_Final.pdf

Against the 3 or 4 that support eliminating protection of Roadless areas, I have to wonder what the deeper issue. This isn't a liberal or conservative thing. This is an elk thing. HR 1581 eliminates the Roadless rule. It eliminates protections for WSAs. Buzz, Ben Long and the rest are right. When you look at how the BLM and FS have managed multiple use lands, and the continued assault on NEPA and the continual assault on BLM winter drilling stips, it's not too difficult to see where folks would think that this is a bill designed to reduce the number of public land hunters.

As far as designating new wilderness, etc, I'd say that it's Congress holding up the designations, and that's at the behest of several special interest groups who openly oppose any protective designations on critical wildlife habitat.

 

[Ben Lamb]

TRCP Press Teleconference Audio on HR 1581

If you think that Dale Burke is a liberal, you clearly have no idea who he is.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Here is some of the WSA's that would lose any protection:
http://www.wildmontana.org/programs/studyareas.php

Not seeing a lot of "granite" so much as good elk and mule deer habitat.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Here's a great map of the lands that would be effected by HR 1581:
http://www.leaveitwild.org/docs/HR-1581_Map.pdf

 

[Black Hills]

This map makes as much sense as Don Peay's map of all the Congressmen he supposedly had supporting his wolf bill. This is meaningless..........we all know you support more wilderness. Fine, then get these lands designated as such and move on...........the sky is not falling.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I do support more wilderness. I'm not afraid to say it either. I'm also not afraid to stand up for public land hunters and for wildlife.

Just because a bill won't pass doesn't mean people should be complacent.

The map is not meaningless. The map clearly shows those lands that would lose administrative protection under HR 1581. Look at that map and tell me those lands aren't worth fighting for.

 

[RockyDog]

Ben Lamb, those areas arent worth fighting for. I enjoyed some of those places while i was young, now that im getting older and lazier i want them roaded to accomodate me. To hell with the next generation of young people and their need for wild places.

I wrote my letter to RMEF today cancelling my membership and letting them know what fools i think they are.

 

[Black Hills]

I have hunted public land longer than you have been alive........I am for better habitat and hunting. Wilderness does not always equal better. The bill does not automatically remove all administrative protection from any land on that map........again the sky is not falling.

Yes those lands are worth fighting for and are better served by managing and enhancing the habitat.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You can manage habitat in roadless. You just can't build new roads.

Wilderness does not always equal better, no. But it does equal calving grounds, summer habitat and parts of the complex of habitats necessary to have abundant populations.

The bill does remove the protections afforded by WSA designations and Roadless designations. It opens those lands up to extractive uses. We lose a lot of habitat each year. It is beyond me why people wish to reduce what we have left.

 

[Black Hills]

The bill puts the land back into the agency's hands to manage. It could remain as a WSA and it could be managed otherwise.

I too am mystified why folks would not want more and better habitat. Simply locking it into Wilderness does not provide the best we can do........there can be better habitat if we fight for it.

 

[RockyDog]

The bill puts the land back into the agency's hands to manage. It could remain as a WSA and it could be managed otherwise.

I too am mystified why folks would not want more and better habitat. Simply locking it into Wilderness does not provide the best we can do........there can be better habitat if we fight for it.

Sounds like alot of empty words, so give us some examples of where this is being done currently?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Tell that to the Sun River elk herd, Sun Rive Bighorns, or Teton Goat herd. Agencies are reduced to paupers under the House's version of the Interior Appropriations bill, with many critical conservation programs being reduced to asinine levels. You have to look at the entire picture of what is occuring in Congress before it becomes clear that HR 1581 is simply a give away to those who wish for nothing more than to make money off the backs of public land hunters under the guise of multiple use management.

It eliminates the land from Roadless and WSA consideration. It does not let it remain as WSAs or Roadless. It undermines many grassroots collaborative efforts that are working towards a common sense conservation effort to protect lands, and provide for all. it undermines the work that hunters and anglers have done in Colorado and Idaho to develop management plans for their Roadless areas. It is top down, DC management by interest who have little or no understanding of wildlife management or land management.

WSA's are only in limbo because of political gamesmanship like HR 1581.

 

[Black Hills]

Last time before bed........it eliminates nothing. These lands have not been approved for designation for various reasons. If they are wilderness worthy then get it done but if not move on........Agency budgets are reduced because we are broke........this country has spent it's way into the toilet.

It is time hunters and sportsmen take more charge of our resources and destiny, that is not just a few hunters who want it their way.......divided we fall and fall fast. We can improve our public lands greatly if we fight for it and not with each other. Hunters dumping on hunters is asinine.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Read the bill, Black Hills. It releases lands within the WSA areas and Roadless Areas.

Therefore, it eliminates the administrative protection of those lands.

So now you're supporting gutting the agencies that are supposed to manage our public lands, and eliminate administrative protections of some of our best hunting lands.

It seems to me that vast majority are not in favor of this, so stand with us and fight to protect our last best places.

 

[RockyDog]

more empty words and now moving into ad naseum rhetoric. My ears are open, pleae give me an example of a roaded area that is being managed so dreamily as you describe would become of our current roadless areas.

 

[muleguy]

There has been only one reason we cant move the wsa into wilderness for the past 30 years in Montana-Denny Rehberg imho

 

[Ben Lamb]

In 1988, a Montana wilderness bill was passed by Congress, and pocket vetoed by Reagan.

1983 was the last wilderness designation in MT. It's been a political football since then. Blaming anyone but congress, and partisan politics for the gridlock on public lands management is like blaming the Poles for the German blitzkrieg.

 

[6speed]

Wow I can't believe I missed this thread until now. It looks like if this bill passes the sky will fall and roads will magically appear everywhere there is not a wilderness designation. I don't buy it and after living most of my life next to a WSA I think it's time to let it go. Let it be managed by the people with the greatest stake. I'm tired of people in New York, Washington and now it sounds like even Wyoming trying to dictate what should and shouldn't be done in parts of the country they have never been. Don't get me wrong I don't want the patchwork of roads shown in some of the pictures here but I'm pretty sure there are a lot more multiple use areas that don't look like that than ones that do. I am just as scared if not more so by another NREPA.

 

[Ben Lamb]

6 Speed,

I too am scared of NREPA. I'm also not going to support an all out assault on our public lands like we're seeing in Congress right now.

The middle ground is easy - it's the local efforts underway to move these lands away from political gamesmanship while maintaining existing protections until the people who live, work and play in those areas can come up with a collaborative product that figures out what works, and what doesn't.

HR 1581 is just like NREPA in that it's a top down, DC dogmatic mandate on our public lands. You want local control? Take local control. Work with other stakeholders to figure out what is worth wilderness protection, and what isn't.

I'm simply not comfortable letting congress, especially congressmen and women whom have never set foot in a roadless area, decide for me.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Categorical Exclusions reinstalled for oil and gas development on public land

Cat Ex's were used extensively in places like the Pinedale Anticline and Atlantic Rim. The BLM has to do no environmental review, or provide for concerns from hunting groups to protect wildlife in certain circumstances.

The Obama Administration rule didn't slow down drilling, and in fact, the nation is drilling as much as when the Bush Admin was in office after a brief dip during the recession.

Here's a good article from the Wyoming Wildlife Federation about oil and gas development in a Wilderness study Area that has a great elk herd. That herd will be noticably reduced when the CBM companies are through punching in roads, and creating enough havoc for those elk to cause a big enough concern that then Governor Freudenthal helped slow down the project.

But it's a WSA, so it's not good hunting, right?