Honest answers only

[Elkhunter]

Everyone of us is out and about in the fields and mountains. This argument, debate, dicussion or whatever you wish to call it, about ATVs seems to be never ending. I read where some see nothing but destruction from the ATV, some by recreation users and some by hunters. I for one have seen abuse in the past, but the trend lately is non abuse of the ATV. This is only what I see where I ride my horse in the summer and where I hunt in the fall. In fact this past season I saw only good riding and use of the ATV by hunters. None of them were riding fast, none of them were riding recklessly, none of them were causing damage and everyone of them were friendly and polite people. Yet all I see are nothing but bad about them on here. Do some of you have so much hate for the ATV that it clouds what you actually see while in the field? So my question is this, how much damage and abuse do you actually see and witness with your own eyes? Not what you have read, not what you think is being done, not what you hear on these boards, not what you hear from your friends, only what you have seen and witnessed, and please be honest.

 

[pipedreams]

around these parts, most ATVs related damage is done by non-hunters during the spring and summer months. even so the damage is relatively minor(mosly erosion of established but "unimproved" roads and maybe minor damage to the plant life). i actually think atv use is on the decline in my part of OK. this year i only saw a few ATVs and they were disabled hunters moving in and out of their areas. i suspect things may be different farther west. out here we don't have as much ground to cover.

 

[1_pointer]

The foothills along the Wasatch Front are cris-crossed with illegal ATV trails. Near SLC the damage is so bad near one watershed that the Mayor gave the the order to fly the police chopper over the area. When elk hunting and scouting this fall I saw many ATVs on roads that were only open to cars/trucks. There wasn't any damage being done, but they were in off limits nontheless.

 

[ELKCHSR]

I've seen countless numbers of ATV's in the backs of trucks and on trailers, I have seen one place in the mountains 2 years ago where the matted grass showed where one had gone cross country, the individual seemed to try not to tear the area up, no one really even takes their machines in this area and the maps show it as open use area for them. I have seen a couple roads that are not passable by most trucks that have a lot of ATV tracks on them, and you can tell by looking at the corners that these guy's are squirreling around some. But, I don't see the wonton destruction and abuse that is continually reported, I will turn some one in-in a New York second as the saying goes if I catch them doing it, TIPMONT even pay's people to do this, but for me it's not the money and they can keep their money to use for better catches, it is the principle...

 

[Delw]

Here in AZ we have lots and lots of atvs, almost every house has at least one...
I see them out hunting alot, but mainly getting to and from hunting locations... a few people road hunt with them, but i very rarely see them doing illegal stuff... Most of the guys that use them while hunting mainly use the to get thier game out(its legal here)....

In the desert areas of the state they are on every dirt road along with motor bikes and sandrails. There is nothing wrong with it and they dont hurt a thing... in river washes(which are 99% sand) there are ATVS all over it... Some people complain that the tracks in the sand look bad, These people are absolute Kooks.. if you think about it everytime it rains in AZ the river wash is flooded and taken back to a nice big playground. there is no way a ATV can ruin a sandy river wash... We dont have trees and mud in or washes like some of the states... its just 99% sand and 1% rocks... those are kinda hard to mess up...


Delw

 

[Ithaca 37]

If by damage and abuse you mean things like riding off roads and trails, riding in ways that will cause erosion (like straight up a hill), riding over and breaking sagebrush, riding around closed gates and tearing up ground, I can show it to you anywhere I go on public land. If by damage you mean damaging other peoples hunts when you drive close to them when they're hunting and possibly scare game or even take away from the hunters enjoyment of their hunt it happens everyday in some areas during deer or elk season. If you mean damage to our hunting future by disturbing game so much it moves to private land for sanctuary, it is a cumulative thing that gets worse every day someone rides an ATV where there is game.

The problem is that the physical evidence lasts a long time, it might not have been done in the last month or two or even the last year, but it is cumulative. Remember, we can still see the wagon tracks on the Oregon Trail. Land takes a long time to heal in the high desert, which is most of South Idaho.

I was talking to a friend last nite who was working as a volunteer at some F&G check stations last fall. He said the number one complaint was about ATVs.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-26-2003 10:23: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Elkhunter]

I was talking to a friend last nite who was working as a volunteer at some F&G check stations last fall. He said the number one complaint was about ATVs.

This is why I asked to honestly say what you have witnessed.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Well, I've witnessed all those things I mentioned. Even complaints at a check station while I was there getting checked and talking to a biologist.

 

[MEATHEAD]

I have a 4 wheeler but only use it to haul my game out {flipper to}. We are on private land not on public. The public land that I do hunt on, we are not allowed to use them.

 

[Delw]

Ithaca... I hear about all those complaints as well.... and its usually by hunters who are driveing the roads and looking for deer.... you can narrow it down by asking them specific questions like how far off the road where ya, or where they on a legal road.. you will find that most of the ones complaining will say yeah they are legal, but they scared my game away.....

As far as errosion and other stuff like that here in AZ we dont have that problem cause we have so many sandy washes where the ATVS can play.... you really cant mess up a sandy wash, other than getting tire tracks on it....

Also in AZ its legal for someone to take any vehicle to retrieve downed big game anywhere(not on roads).. I would much rather have a small quad do it then a huge 4X4....

I will say I have had ATVS come up and bother me while trying to call in a yote or lion, but they were all legal in doing what they did.....

This is Almost like the Jetskiers VS the bass fishermen issue in AZ.. the bass fishermen want the lakes all to themselves and constantly whine and cry about the jetskiers, even to the point of over exagerating there stories and making it sound like the jetskiers are always breaking the law, when in fact that most bassfishermen do the things that they say the jetskiers do.......


Delw

 

[Elkhunter]

If any of you have witnessed this damage done unlawfully, did you report these incidents?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Yup. Got nowhere. Try it yourself sometime. The BLM has no interest in enforcing any ATV regulations. That's why they only have one enforcement officer in SW Idaho, and he's supposed to be enforcing everything on thousands of square miles of BLM. Even twenty enforcement officers wouldn't be able to keep up with all the violations.

 

[BuzzH]

I've seen lots of ATV abuse first hand. DS was with me this year, when we found 2 ATV's clearly parked in a Wilderness Area and completely off any kind of established road.

I also saw many abuses in south central Wyoming on BLM land. Driving off road was the main culprit, and they werent retrieving game. Even if they were, I wonder if anybody has heard of dragging or packing game on your back? If your able to walk into an area and kill an animal, you ought to be able to pack it out without an ATV, IMHO.

In Montana I saw a fat-ass drive around a gated and signed road.

Did I turn them in, only the ones on the BLM land in Wyoming. It would have been pointless in the other two cases because I didnt have any way to document the other two.

Those are just examples that I personally witnessed, but I saw countless ATV tracks on closed roads this year, I see countless new renegade ATV trails each year, etc. I'm out in the woods year round. The most abused area I saw was just about anywhere in CO, with WY a close second.

 

[Tom]

I saw it first hand the last time I hunted in Idaho. The laws need to be enforced. I got pissed a little at my neighbor on the lease this year. He shot a nice buck in the early morning and was driving his ATV back and forth retrieving the buck, getting his saw, getting who knows what. It was his biggest buck, so I didn't say anything to him. He's off the lease this year, to much work, to far. That matches his ATV use. Some guys on the other side of me probably pushed the buck I got to me, by driving their ATV back and forth, so that worked for me. We have a rule on the lease I'm on, no drive times, only off road to retrieve or service a blind/feeders. We have those feeders here that throw food out in the am and pm. We'll enforce it too, people can loose their hunting access if they break the rule. We all want the lease to work, driving ATVs all over, at any time, will just ruin land and drive game out of the area.

 

[Muledeer4me]

I have seen some abuse.
Tracks going around closed road signs,ripped up areas where someone was spinning the tire's.Tire marks in areas where you know its closed.
Our foot hills used to get hammered big time by motorcycles ATV and Trucks.Its not so bad now.Because they hired a cop on a Dirt Bike to patrol .
There has been a big push to get the word out,and I see it working.
BUT there is a group in this area that shows the open set aside Motorcycle park as damage being done .They use pictures of this area to show people and then say look at what they are doing to your public land!!!! Total Bull.
But for the most part all the BIG BIG abuse we hear about I sure dont see and Im out there alot.
Alot of the complants I hear are about legal use.
As for our BLM land its legal to drive off the road IF you arent causing damage.
In some areas of the national forest its legal to go off road to retrive game,again you have to be carefull not to cause damage.
We also have open trails ,but we still have those people that see anyone that isnt on foot as doing damage,wrecking there hunt,scaring off there game.
Steve and I have had people on foot,horseback,motorcycle and ATV cause game we were stalking leave.
So what!!!! Thats hunting on public lands.
The ones that are illegal ,I have no problem turning them in. We have done so.
I see more ATVs sitting in the back of pick-up then I do while in the field.
Most of the people I know use them to get to and from there bailing off spot just like we would in a pick up.

I have no problem with anyone road hunting ,as long as they get off the road to shoot (all leagl)
If it floats there boat I dont care as long as there legal,it leaves more room for me in the field.But I dont see this being done alot.
I see people with there bows or rifles while riding an ATV or motorcycle to get to and from someplace.


I really think the non-riding population need to be educated on whats legal and whats not as well as the riders/owners.
I see this as I saw the river sports going,the float boater didnt like the jet boats,they said they were to loud,they smelled,

we didnt have a problem with any of them .
Its usually the people that dont get along with others that complane the most,those that see things as there way is the only way.
the ones that get something done are the ones that understands all groups have jerks in them and go after that segment.
While understanding we all have a right to use our public lands in a safe ethical legal manner even if its on something we would never buy or use.
AND THEN NAIL THE ILLEGAL ONE.
I even see this stuff between the cross country skiers (thats what Steve and I do) and the snowmachines.
We have never had a proplem with snowmachines even thought its something I have no desire to try.

 

[FEW]

I personally have been seeing more and more abuse. I agree with Delw that in AZ much of the riding is done in sandy washes and open flats which does not probably matter much. It is annoying to hunters but in these cases the ATV guys are legal and of course just having a good time so I can not really fault them. We have lots of State Trust Land in AZ which is to be used by hunters and fisherman only unless you get written permission from the Land Commissioner. I see ATV guys out tearing around on the state trust land all the time and they are trespassing. We actually had a quad rider call the cops on us for birdhunting too close to where his family was, when he was the one breaking the law. I talked with the game and fish about this and they said they do not issue permission to people that just want to ride ATVs. They will issue permission for hikers,mountain bikers, horse riders and companies that do the hot air ballooning but he said anytime you see the atvers out there they are probably trespassing unless they are hunting or fishing. Of course they do nothing about it when you report the trepassers. My biggest problem with the ATVers in the desert is that they love to find waterholes and tear them up. In AZ most of our water holes are just a big round berm of dirt filled with water and obviously lots of mud. The ATVers tear ass through the water, do circles around the edges and tear up the green vegetation that grows around the water. In the desert these watering sources are important to game and I know for a fact that the destruction of the water holes has hurt game in some of the areas I hunt. I think they should just fence off the water so game can get in but not trucks or atvs... In the areas I am talking about 99% of the culprits are the guys out on their racing bikes/quads and not hunters. One area that I hunt is criss crossed with horse trails which I think is bad enough, but now the atvers and motor bike guys are running around on the horse trails and sooner or later they will be wide enough for trucks to drive on. They are causing quite a bit of damage by ripping up the vegetation along the trails and making them wider...

In northern AZ I see less damage and less pleasure riders. I have however seen hunters abusing the land with ATVs in northern AZ. Last year I saw some kids that were hunting on one of those 6 wheel vehicles climbing up a mountain that is signed "No Motor Vehicles Erosion Protection Area" The tracks went right by the sign. I also saw 2 quads in a wilderness area near the top of San Francisco Peaks last year after I had hiked 3 miles to get up there. Quads are not allowed in the wilderness area even if you are retrieving game...

 

[Delw]

Few I have one of thoe 6 wheelers... Its a blast in the sand but very loud... it also floats , Ive used to to retrieve ducks quite a few times...

I have a artic cat 440 motor with dual carbs in it....
Delw

 

[dgibson]

What Meathead said. Many, many in this area have them, and they use them on private property. I have seen a couple drive theirs right up to the tree they're hunting in, but most leave them at the truck until they have a deer down. I can't personally comment on public areas around here because I avoid them like the plague come hunting season; just too crowded. Hopefully I'll never have to find out.

 

[Ithaca 37]

"As for our BLM land its legal to drive off the road IF you arent causing damage."

If they drive over sage brush and break it they are causing damage to wildlife habitat and they almost always do that. It would be just about impossible not to run over sage brush if you were driving off road on most BLM. How ya gonna see the young sage brush that is only three inches tall? How ya gonna avoid damaging any vegetation you drive over?

 

[FEW]

Delw they do look like a great off road vehicle and would be especially helpful since they can float. I just hope you steer clear of protected wilderness areas, and erosion protection areas. And dont be floating around in them water holes.

Hey maybe you could throw that thing in my pickup bed for the canada hunt. We could fish out of it then drive off into the forest across the lake and look for bears. Maybe even blaze our own trail.

Like I have said I have no problem with ATVs when used legally and ethically. Truthfully I have been trying to talk my dad into getting one so he wont scratch up the new Jeep Rubicon he just got, but he says he likes the custom pinstriping. It was a nice try but I have to admit I really like the AZ pinstriping on my truck too. Adds character ya know. I may end up buying myself an ATV or one of those 6 wheelers in a couple months when I get my Powerstroke. As much as I like pinstripes I have promised myself and the wife I will not beat the crap out of my new truck like I have my nissan. Its a 2001 has over 85000 miles, more metal showing than paint and a bunch of body damage from bouncing around on rocks. My AC also broke and my power steering sounds like it will give out any day now. I am going to lose my ass when I trade it in but it has taken me all over the friggen place and I have to say it was worth whatever amount of money I end up losing.