Hole in the Wall Fire

[mightyhunter]

I live in Clark, Wyoming which is a community very close to the Beartooth Mountains and the Montana border. On Sunday night, a couple of lightning strikes hit a ridge behind the Tolman Ranch just over the ridge from the North Fork of Bennett Creek. The morning after the fire, a small crew may have been able to put it out. Swirling high winds kicked the fire into overdrive on Monday afternoon. No surprise for those of us that live in this area. Last night the fire was over 1,700 acres. It has moved west and north into the Line Creek drainage. The South Fork of Line Creek is in Wyoming and the rest of the drainage is in Montana. This is very steep country and a difficult place to fight a fire. Numerous USFS Hotshot crews have moved into the area. A tent city has been set up at the Clark Fire Hall and the Clark Recreation Center. There are so many USFS administrators buzzing around Clark it is become the subject of a few jokes.

There was a public meeting last night at the Clark Recreation Center. For the most part it went well. After the meeting, I asked the District Ranger how much of what was burning was beetle killed white bark and lodgepole pine. His comment was 80%. In this area, people have been resistent to controlled burns. Logging this area would be virtually impossible because of the terrain. I am sure that a few grizzly bears and wolves are getting out of town.

People in Montana and the Red Lodge area should keep an eye on this fire. Anyone who was contemplating an elk hunt (Unit 50), a sheep hunt (Unit 1) or a goat hunt in this part of Wyoming should be aware of this fire. Montana game units will also likely be affected.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Burn baby, burn.

 

[BuzzH]

Let it burn...

If anything is done...it should be adding ping-pong balls, heli-torches, drip-torches, etc.

Why fight it, I say add to it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Let it burn...

There's a significant wildland/urban interface there that needs protecting. Lots of decadent timber/beetle kill that would benefit from a good torching in there.

 

[BuzzH]

Ask me if I care about the wildland/Urban interface...or the torching it needs as well.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Understood, but sub-d's in winter range are all the rage.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Understood, but sub-d's in winter range are all the rage.

Well you want to be in the "In" crowd as well don't you?

 

[Ben Lamb]

I haven't posted on MM in years.

 

[mightyhunter]

I agree with the let it burn policy. I would have preferred a controlled burn at another time of the year when temperature and winds would have been less of a factor. However, controlled burns are a tough sell to much of the public. This should be a real benefit to wildlife populations in the area.

I don't think that property damage will be a real problem in the Line Creek area in Wyoming. The real concern may be for property damage in Montana should the fire proceed very far north or west. There are quite a few homes built way to close to the east face of the Beartooth Front in Montana outside of Belfry and Bear Creek. Only time will tell.

 

[BuzzH]

Why waste money, time, and effort on a prescribed fire when its doing the same exact thing now?

Lodgepole and Whitebark both evolved with stand-replacing disturbance...meaning crown fires.

Pretty tough to prescribe a crown fire and even tougher to keep it in prescription.

Let it burn....

 

[1_pointer]

Why waste money, time, and effort on a prescribed fire when its doing the same exact thing now?

Lodgepole and Whitebark both evolved with stand-replacing disturbance...meaning crown fires.

Pretty tough to prescribe a crown fire and even tougher to keep it in prescription.

Let it burn....

+1. Putting fires out for a long time results in bigger fires in the long run. Lack of fire is a big problem IMO for many western ecosystems...some on this side of the Mississippi could use it as well!

 

[mightyhunter]

According to information from the USFS, aerial ignition has been started (ping pong balls). There are 160 people on the fire with 3 Hotshot Crews and 3 helicopters. This evening the fire will be transferred from a Type III Incident Command to a Type II Incident Command. The fire appears to be moving west and north. and wind has been very light today. I believe the size of the fire is now over 2,500 acres.

Buzz H,

Would a prescribed burn have involved more money, time and effort than what is now being expended on a fire like this?

 

[1_pointer]

Buzz H,

Would a prescribed burn have involved more money, time and effort than what is now being expended on a fire like this?

Not Buzz, but I'd guess it'd be close, especially for one of that size and in the type of terrain you are describing. Big thing I've noticed, is that in rough terrain and or thick timber is very hard to get the go ahead to do a prescribed fire and generally they are not of the intensity of a wildfire.

When I did a simple cost analysis of some prescribed burns I've been apart of, the cost averaged almost $250/acre. This was for areas without trees, in relatively tame terrain, and non were over a couple hundred acres. Additionally, very few got more than 60% of the designated area black due to restrictions put on the burn plan. IMO, those areas could have been treated more effectively and cost efficiently using chemical or mechanical means.

 

[BuzzH]

Would a prescribed burn have involved more money, time and effort than what is now being expended on a fire like this?


What are you after? Best results, cost savings, or appeasing the public? A combination of all three? Other variables?

Thats a loaded question depending on your goals.

I'm of the opinion that many of these type of fires need to simply be left alone. Let them run their course, restore natural fire frequencies, open up habitat, etc. Literally let the snow put them out. I've literally put out "wild" fires in August...and then lit them a month later in the same area as "prescribed" fire.

That said, its tough to let things burn with so many variables to consider as well as public involvement, etc.

As to costs, pretty much in line with what pointer said. I'd say that broadcast burning cutting units is substantially cheaper, but for most understory/wildlife burns, I'd say $250/acre is accurate and in the ballpark.

 

[sweetnectar]

Anyone know how much air pollution comes from a fire this size compared to how much air pollution say Denver Co produces in a year. I've always wondered.

 

[mightyhunter]

The fire has grown to 3,600 acres. Containment has dropped to 10% from 20%. Last night we had some serious wind and thunder that essentially screwed up the USFS fire control plan. The fire has jumped Line Creek and is moving into Corral Creek. The bulk of this fire is now burning in Montana. An evacuation order was issued for 3 drainages in Montana. In those areas there are a few homes that were built (IMO) way to close to the front. They have also started closing numerous trails and roads in the area. About 8:00 o'clock last night the wind shift caused the smoke to settle south and east of the fire in Clark. I would imagine that the smoke is hitting Cody by now.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Anyone know how much air pollution comes from a fire this size compared to how much air pollution say Denver Co produces in a year. I've always wondered.

There's a significant amount of both particulate matter and chemical pollution that occurs w/ fire, but in context of human caused pollution it is much smaller in scale. Constant, year round emissions produce much more pollution than the relatively short time span of wildfire.

 

[mightyhunter]

Just under 6,000 acres with 50% containment. 327 people now involved with the fire including 5 Hot Shot crews, a Type Two crew and 8 helicopters. The thunder storms and winds have not helped the situation. I have heard of no significant injury to anyone. I believe that property damage has been minimal. The upside is a lot of dead white bark and lodgepole pine has been removed and habitat in the area will be improved. Also as an added benefit, some good young people have made some extra money before they return to school.

 

[mightyhunter]

UPDATE
6,185 acres
60% contained
436 personnel assigned to the incident
8 Hot Shot Crews
3 Type Two Incident Crews
8 Helicopters
11 Engines

Looks pretty good from my front room window this morning.