Help us research an OYOA hunt.

[Big Fin]

Oak gave me this idea. I think it might be kind of cool. We'll try it here and see how it goes.

The idea is to help share information about how we do our research and the resources we use. Not to give anyone our honey holes, but maybe pick up a tip or two from other guys about how we go about this.

So here is the criteria and information you need to find a good hunt for the OYOA crew.

• I am going to film a pronghorn hunt in Wyoming for 2012. Not sure if it will be archery or rifle, so I need a tag that allows both options.
  
  
• Going into the draw, I have 1 (one) preference point as does the guy I most likely will apply with.
  
  
• I will be applying in the Special Draw.
  
  
• I have no problem hunting a second choice tag if it means I get to build another point this year and increase my odds of a better unit next year. But, I need to go this year. So, even if I am not completely guaranteed a tag in the PP draw, I need to at least have a chance in that draw or the random draw. If I am not assured of the tag in the PP draw, I need to know I can get a tag as a second choice.
  
  
• I will travel to any unit in the state.
  
  
• I need a unit with at least 40% public land or at least 20,000 acres of Walk-in Hunting area as part of the Wyoming access program.
  
  
• My time frame for the hunt, due to other filming commitments, is September 20 - 28 or October 10 -15 for rifle and August 15 - 24 for archery.

With this, the game we are playing is for each person to find a unit that fits this criteria. You share here the place you got the data that confirms it meets the criteria above. Hopefully you find most of that in the public domain or in the threads or resources here on Hunt Talk.

I know some are protective of their units, so do not list the units you will apply in, unless you want. You must post your first and second choice unit recommendations that you think are best for this OYOA hunt to be considered for the prize listed below. You need to list the resources from where you got the information that supports the criteria listed above.

I have already done my research and have found about four different options that will meet this criteria. But, I think it would be cool if it were the option that a Hunt Talk came up with and we used for the show.

The person who comes up with an idea I use, wins:

• Wyoming GPS chip from huntingGPSmaps.com
  
  
• OYOA hat and T-shirt of their choice.
  
  
• Maybe I can convince Eli Grimmett to give me a deal on a the best antelope judging DVD ever - Size is Everything.
  Link to those DVDs are here ====> http://www.pronghornguideservice.net/dvds.html. If so, I will add that to the loot.
  
  
• And if Van Franke has a slightly damaged Pronghorn Freak shirt or hat I will try my best to negotiate a price that allows me to add that to the pot - Link to his operation is here ====> http://www.pronghornfreak.com/

I will be applying by the end of February, so the contest will close by that time. If two guys post the same recommendation and we end up using that, the guy who posted it first gets the prize.

We will use this hunt for one of two purposes, and maybe both:

1) Season Five episode on Sportsman Channel or/and

2) Pronghorn hunting DVD I am working on. That is, if people would actually be interested in a pronghorn hunting DVD that I promise will NOT make reference to "The Newberg Way."

 

[Topgun 30-06]

You've lost me before we even get started, LOL! How can I meet the criteria when in one sentence you say we don't need to post our honeyhole units that would qualify under your criteria. Then in the next sentence you say we must post our first and second choices to qualify for the prizes. I can tell you that through my knowledge of the Wyoming units and use of the draw odds on the Wyoming F&G website is how I came up with my units. I'll send you a PM with the numbers and we'll go from there!

 

[Big Fin]

You've lost me before we even get started, LOL! How can I meet the criteria when in one sentence you say we don't need to post our honeyhole units that would qualify under your criteria. Then in the next sentence you say we must post our first and second choices to qualify for the prizes. I can tell you that through my knowledge of the Wyoming units and use of the draw odds on the Wyoming F&G website is how I came up with my units. I'll send you a PM with the numbers and we'll go from there!

Here is what I asked. Heavy emphasis on the bold and underlined portion.

You must post your first and second choice unit recommendations that you think are best for this OYOA hunt to be considered for the prize listed below.

Not the best units for your situation, but for the situation/criteria I described.

PMs don't count toward the prize. No one on the site learns from info sent via PMs. This is not about giving me inside tips, but helping people understand how the research process works. If your idea happens to be your favorite units and plans, I suspect you won't post it out here for the world to see.

I looked over the threads of the last year and the most common thread related to western tags and research was Wyoming antelope, so that is what we are working on in this one.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

My units that I would give you do meet the criteria that I also think is best for the OYOA hunt. I guess from your response I'm screwed because you are correct in that I will not post them out on the open forum to win those prizes. Thanks any way and good luck as it sounded good, but if many people are like myself you are going to lose a lot of good responses!!!

 

[Big Fin]

You missed what I'm saying! My units that I would give you meet the criteria that I also think is best for the OYOA hunt. I guess from your response I'm screwed because I will not post them out on the open forum to win those prizes because i already have the main chip that is the top prize. Thanks any way and good luck as it sounded good!!!

I completely understand. Don't want anyone to give up hard earned units. Was mostly looking for the process people use to get to that decision.

I already have a lot of WY units that meet the criteria, but want to involve the Hunt Talk crowd to the extent they feel comfortable discussing such. Would like to hunt one of their recommendations, rather than my own ideas, for purpose of show people how easy it can be to do the research and have success in the field.

 

[Lawnboy]

I didn't realize that Oak was such a "Gamer"

 

[EliAGrimmett]

I'll throw in a DVD.

I'll also throw in my two cents a little later on.

 

[Lawnboy]

I'll also throw in my two cents a little later on.

Eli I'd take even your "scraps" of advice in regards to antelope any day

 

[npaden]

Interesting. I've been debating whether I was going to hunt elk in Wyoming this year or not because the opener is on a Thursday and that blows the weekend travel opportunity for me. I didn't realize that there were rifle antelope hunts that opened that early.

I could maybe schedule an antelope hunt the first of the week to justify the whole thing this year. Travel up on the weekend, hunt antelope the start of the week and then switch to elk at the end of the week. Too bad I haven't purchased an antelope preference point to have in my pocket though.

Looks like there are a few units that have potential with one preference point in the special draw. On a few of those a guy would have a decent chance in the random draw but no guarantees.

Of course 60, 61, 62, etc., are out the window without a bundle of points. Dual monitors at work would be a lot easier for this research than a note pad and my iPhone at the in-laws though.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

I think I would go with 68 1st choice and 63 2nd. Using the resources drawing odds feature show a 28% chance to draw 68 and 100% chance for 63 with 1 point in the special draw. Accessing the Wyo regs and the 2011 Wyoming Hunting guide through the resources gave up all the following info: 75% public land in both units with good access to the public. Both units show high harvest rates, 89% for 68 and 94% for 63. The season dates work for the time frames involved for both archery and rifle. Both units are listed as having a good chance at a mature buck. Both units are also adjoining and under the same regional office so gathering info and opinions on both would be easy through the Lander office.That would also make scouting easy. Lots of options out there but I like those.

 

[Carl]

I'll play.

I based all decisions off information I could easily obtain online, as shown.

First I went here:

http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/WYHUNTINGGUIDE_20110000933.pdf

Using pages 23-26 I wrote down all the areas with either 26%-50% private or 0%-25% private, provided there was a good chance to harvest a mature buck.

Then I went here:

http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/Regulations_Ch5_April2011.pdf

I crossed the season dates with the public land units I had found, ones that wouldn't work for one of the given weeks got crossed out, a bunch ended Oct 14th, and I marked them with a blue dot. Given there were still plenty of units, I decided just to focus on the ones that would work for all given dates.

Then I went here:

http://oyoa.hunterstrailhead.com/huntresults2.php

Looking at the draw odds, I broke the units into three categories, some draw % with one point, 100% draw with one point, and 100% draw with no points (for the special option). I also wrote down some other information, like how many points it would take to draw with a regular tag, or what the draw % was with no points. Here I'm just looking for ways to distinguish between units, and maybe get your money's worth out of the special draw extra cost.

Another aspect I wanted to consider is some of Wyoming reportedly had a hard winter last year. I went to here:

http://www.wrds.uwyo.edu/wrds/nrcs/snowpack/snowmap.html

And looked at the snowpack maps for Jan - April 2011. (the visual is near the bottom of each report). It looked to me like the area between the Bighorns and Winds/Absarokas had a milder winter than some of the rest of the state.

So far I'm not really liking the draw odds of the less than 100% options. 91 shows 32%, but looks like it could have had a rough winter. 68 shows 28%, and could be the best way to go if you want so-so odds of drawing 1st choice but better odds of 2nd choice and a point. I like how 75 looks the best, and with nearly guaranteed odds. I can see though that not all of the unit looks like antelope country, and being listed 26%-50% private, I want to make sure there is plenty of public prairie land.

So I go here:

http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/state/wy

And download an ownership map (I already had one, not sure which), which I open in Garmin BaseCamp. Free here:

http://www.garmin.com/us/products/onthetrail/basecamp

And there appears to be plenty of blm and state in the flatter parts of the unit.

Given all of the above, I think I'd put in for 75 1st with 73 as a likely unneeded backup.

 

[Big Fin]

Wow. Carl. That is some great detail. I like all of that.

Some research tools there that guys should take note of. Last winter was very bad in some units. If it is very bad again this year, that is a major piece of info to know about.

Also, the winter of 2007-08 was a killer in many units, also. Given the bucks that are mature will be 3 years and older, I always look to see what the winter was like in all past years, if possible. I keep track of that information in a folder for each state.

Lots of guys will burn points in a great unit, only failing to realize that two or three years ago, or two years in a row, the winter was killer. Then they burn all these points to have a very reduced mature buck population.

This is the kind of information I am hoping guys can learn from. And, the kind of resources that are out there in the public domain, just waiting for hunters to take advantage of.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Very impressive Carl!!!

 

[Bowhuntrben]

Very good info Carl. I didn't know about the Hunting Guide..very nice!

 

[thecrittergitter]

Jeez Carl......you must not be on the clock

Nice work....now i know how you ended up in my honey holeLOL

 

[WapitiBob]

Since were giving up secrets, here are the Biologists reports:

http://gf.state.wy.us/wildlife/biggamejcr2010/index.asp

 

[konasage]

Congrats Big Fin

I thought we should all be aware that Fin is now in a position to do more good than he already does for all of us. I figured he would be fairly quiet about getting a gig with the RMEF and possibly put some real smarts in the direction the front line projects go that will make the most good for of us who give a kick.

I know he will do a bang up job for us and sorry for plastering it without your go ahead Fin
..... just thought you should be congratulated for playing in yet another league.

 

[npaden]

2nd choice question.

So do you want a 2nd choice that will be a guarantee with the special tag?

Looks to me that you would have zero chance to draw 63 as a 2nd choice (there were 75 1st choice applicants that fell to the randow draw last year for 11 tags so there would have to be a lot fewer folks apply to even have a chance), but there would be a chance at 73 with the 2nd choice (11 1st choice applicants for 24 tags so that left 13 tags for the 16 folks who had it down as their 2nd choice - 81% odds).

Looks like you could put down unit 72 as a 3rd choice and have that be your guaranteed tag. In 2011 there was 67 tags that made it to the random draw in the special pool with 22 second choice applicants and 12 third choice applicants.

I'm still banging around a bit doing research, but was curious on thoughts on what you are really looking for in a 2nd choice. I'm personally leaning toward applying in 73 this year with zero points and going in the special draw which looks like it would be close to a lock for a tag.

Another question is whether you are going to want to hunt on opening day. Lots of units open on September 20th which is on your timeframe, but not sure you want to be out there filming the zoo that will be happening. If you don't want to hunt opening day then the units that open on September 15th would seem to be better choices.

 

[npaden]

Looking at it from a "value" perspective is pretty interesting. WIth the special tag you can draw unit 72 as your 3rd choice pretty much guaranteed. With the regular tag you would have had a 55.7% chance of drawing that tag with your 1st choice if you didn't have a preference point.

On unit 73 you are almost guaranteed that tag with no preference points in the special draw. In the regular draw you had a 10.8% chance of drawing it without at least 1 1/2 preference points.

For sure I think unit 73 is the best value as a 2nd choice in the special draw and 72 is probably the best value 3rd choice.

 

[npaden]

Okay, I'm done with my analysis and am going to make my recommendation based on what I would do if it were me.

Since you already have a point, let's not waste it. I did an analysis of the difference it takes to draw the same hunt with a regular tag versus the points to draw it with a special tag. I then double checked to make sure it met your criteria.

The best "value" for a special tag is hunt area 95-1. That tag took 4.5 points to draw with a regular tag last year (61% of those with 4.5 points drew) and there were 20% of the folks with 1 point that drew it for a difference of 3.5 points. If you found someone with 2 points to apply with it would have been a guarantee last year with 1.5 points in the special.

For folks with 1 preference point the next best value would be 77-1 with 4 points to draw in the regular and 1.5 points to guarantee a draw in the special and about a 20% chance with only 1 point.

52-1 and 94-1 both took 3.5 point to guarantee a draw last year and both only took 1 point for a guarantee draw last year for a difference of 2.5 points. Those are both 25-50% private land.

Okay, lots of options, but here's my recommendation.

1st choice = 77-1. That hunt took 4 points to draw in the regular and you would have about a 20% chance to draw it with one point in the special draw. If you draw you will be very happy, if you don't you will keep your point and be able to add another. With 2 points you would have been guaranteed a tag in all but 14 units and would have had a chance to draw in all except 9. This area is 75%+ public land.

2nd choice = 73-1. This hunt would take 1.5 points to draw in the regular draw and you would have about an 80% chance of drawing it with your second choice. This is 50-75% public land.

3rd choice = 72-1. This is about a 50% chance to draw this tag with zero points in the regular draw, but should pretty much be a guarantee as a 3rd choice in the special draw. It is also 50-75% public land but list the access as "fair" instead of "good".

72 and 73 open on September 15th and 77 opens on September 20th. 77 closes on the 14th instead of going through the 15th of October like you want, but it would be worth it if you drew.

All my research was done on the wyoming website.