Help an idiot

[rogerthat]

Ok. What am I doing wrong? I have a cva hawkens percussion purchased used on gunbroker. When I first got it. It seemed like the hammer was dragging a little and it would take multiple drops of the hammer to go off. I changed out the nipple. Loosened the screw that goes all the way through the gun and holds the hammer assembly. I oiled up the hammer group and that seemed to help a bunch. I had it loaded up for about 4 days and when I shot yesterday. Took multiple attempts to pop the cap. Should I change out the main spring? I have an extra one or is it more likely something is still in the hammer binding?

 

[DFS]

Take that thing throw it in the trash and upgrade to an in-line for next season. My 2 cents

 

[rogerthat]

Take that thing throw it in the trash and upgrade to an in-line for next season. My 2 cents

As usual, your always helpful dougfuckinsticky

 

[Addicting]

It’s not enough force hitting the cap or the cap didn’t go off?

It was a new cap you just put on?

All the caps were stored in good condition?

Once the cap went off the charge went off fine?

 

[rogerthat]

I think yes to all your questions. The caps go off fine on a different gun. It seems like not enough force hitting the cap. I have read where the cap has to be struck square but it seemed like the gun got cold and the hammer didn’t fall as hard as when the gun is warm.

 

[Redman]

Loosen the two lock (action for non MZ people) screws see if that helps. If it does check the stock inlet for the lock and see if the wood is pressing the spring causing it to be weak.

 

[David58]

Usually, I gently lower the hammer on the cap and press it down against the nipple before heading out to hunt. Carried on half-@#)(# from there, trigger NOT set. [edit: the automoderator does not like the word c.0.c.k]

But if you are needing more than two strikes to get it to go off, a poorly mounted cap isn't the issue. Your new nipple should have addressed the issue of any peening of the nipple, so if it really was a new nipple, that ain't it.

You probably have already done this, but look at the hammer face. It is a bit recessed, and if any crud has built up there it will soften the blow. Make sure it is scraped clean.

Loosening the lock bolt implies you might have some interference in the lock mortise. Take the lock out, and see if there is any shiny spot on the wood near moving parts. You may need to relieve a TINY bit of wood where there could be any contact. You should not have to run with a loose lock bolt.

And, a CVA Hawken is not a young gun. I'd think a weak spring might well be the issue, and if you have one, replacing it might well solve all the issues.

Finally, don't ever replace a traditional rifle with an inline. You are doing it right.

David
NM

 

[rogerthat]

Loosen the two lock (action for non MZ people) screws see if that helps. If it does check the stock inlet for the lock and see if the wood is pressing the spring causing it to be weak.

This is a solid comment. I will take it apart and thoroughly inspect it again today. I never thought to inspect that.

 

[shb]

First thing is to make sure your caps are seated completely against the nipple.


When the nipple diameter is just a hair to big, the cap doesn't seat completely by hand.

Then your first hammer strike seats it all the way, and the second fires it.

 

[Bambistew]

Did it fire well when warm? If so, less oil or use a dry lube for cold.

Check the hammer and make sure there isn't a carbon cushion on it, or something robbing you of the power in the strike.

Are you certain the hammer is swinging perfectly straight and notnoit of alignment parallel the action? It could be binding slightly. Maybe the spring is pushing it at a canted angle?

 

[Nick87]

Read the title and thought you were starting either a gofundme or an intervention for me.

 

[Hem]

Solid comments above.

So I finally got the proper replacement nipple. That is, proper diameter. But the height of the nipple is taller than the original. As you can see, the hammer doesn't square up to the nipple.
Probably run some caps this afternoon.
Who wants to stick by their theory?
Will it fire,or not?

 

[David58]

Solid comments above.

So I finally got the proper replacement nipple. That is, proper diameter. But the height of the nipple is taller than the original. As you can see, the hammer doesn't square up to the nipple.
Probably run some caps this afternoon.
Who wants to stick by their theory?
Will it fire,or not?
View attachment 256153

It very well might fire. Centered isn't essential, as long as the nipple surface and the face of the hammer are planar (parallel surfaces) when touching. But, if you have any wood/moving part contact inside the lock mortise, you may well still have issues.

David
NM

 

[Hem]

It very well might fire. Centered isn't essential, as long as the nipple surface and the face of the hammer are planar (parallel surfaces) when touching. But, if you have any wood/moving part contact inside the lock mortise, you may well still have issues.

David
NM

If you enlarge my pic you will see the surfaces are not planar. The parallel improves slightly when the hammer is fully down but I am not convinced it will square up as a result of the new nipple being taller than the original.
Find out later today.

 

[shb]

Solid comments above.

So I finally got the proper replacement nipple. That is, proper diameter. But the height of the nipple is taller than the original. As you can see, the hammer doesn't square up to the nipple.
Probably run some caps this afternoon.
Who wants to stick by their theory?
Will it fire,or not?
View attachment 256153

You can chuck the old nipple up in a drill, and put some emery cloth to it, if it's the preferred height.

 

[Hem]

You can chuck the old nipple up in a drill, and put some emery cloth to it, if it's the preferred height.

For future reference what does the emery cloth accomplish?
I might have gotten a little impatient last year and run a file over the top to see if I could tweak things a bit...probably shouldn't have.

 

[Bullshot]

Wondering if the inside surface of the hammer contacts the upper side of the nipple as it rotates closed, slowing and impeding any impact on the cap. Might need to heat and bend that hammer or replace with one that has better centering on the nipple. You can use shims to adjust hammer out to the right, but don’t know what else to do to center it more forward.

 

[BrentD]

Solid comments above.

So I finally got the proper replacement nipple. That is, proper diameter. But the height of the nipple is taller than the original. As you can see, the hammer doesn't square up to the nipple.
Probably run some caps this afternoon.
Who wants to stick by their theory?
Will it fire,or not?
View attachment 256153

Looks pretty good to me. If you think the fit isn't perfect, put a piece of paper over the nipple and snap it once or twice. You should be able to see how well they meet each other from the marks on the paper. It should fire fine though, if the right to left is okay.

 

[shb]

For future reference what does the emery cloth accomplish?
I might have gotten a little impatient last year and run a file over the top to see if I could tweak things a bit...probably shouldn't have.

Use it to sand down the diameter of the nipple so that the cap will fit all the way down.

 

[Hem]

Fired 6 caps.
First cap fired on first hammer drop.
Next five caps each fired on the second hammer drop.
Checked for fouling inside hammer.
Hammer seems to be striking evenly(paper test) though my suspicion is not perfectly. Enlarging pic shows slight discrepancy.
Pics for clarity.
Solution?
A) replace nipple to a shorter one.
B) Polish nipple to allow cap to seat every so slightly better.

I knew the nipple height was different but the pic shows significantly.