Has long range hunting gone too far?

[elkaholic06]

Hello all. I'm looking to start a friendly discussion on long range shooting of animals. I've seen videos and heard stories of people taking animals at extreme distances. It does take an incredible amount of skill and work to make a clean shot at that distance. However, such distances leave very little room for error, and with so many variables changing at once (sometimes unexpectedly) I can see how the shot could go very wrong. As hunters, we have a huge responsibility to respect the animals we harvest. A quick and humane kill is paramount, and we own every shot we take.

At what yardage is a shot considered "long range"? How far is too far? Is shooting that far truly hunting?

NB: This is just a discussion. I don't condemn people that humanely shoot animals from afar, but I personally believe there is a line that can be crossed. What are your thoughts? Please keep this a discussion. If you get offended by other people's opinions I suggest you find your safe-zone

 

[Big Fin]

I've received my share of "love letters" since commenting in last week's TV episode of the disgust I had when I watched a TV show where a guy backed up to a longer distance so he would have his "personal best." Enough comments were received that I decided the podcast for last week would take on the topic in further detail.

My opinions are laid out in that podcast :

Stitcher - http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/hun...rg-unfiltered-hunting-conservation?refid=stpr

iTunes - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-001-randy-newberg-talks/id1012713381?i=345687547&mt=2

 

[elkaholic06]

Randy,

I really enjoyed your discussion on "lethality index". I definitely agree that people's abilities vary and one's comfort level at a certain yardage may be different than someone else's. I don't remember your entire podcast, but could you discuss your opinion on the "morality" of shooting super far? In other words, is that fair to the animal? Does that act require the skills that make someone a hunter?

Btw, I'm new to the forums and I started watching your shows and listening to your podcasts a few weeks ago. Your presentation of hunting is top notch and I am very thankful for the work you do!

 

[James Riley]

It is my opinion that the closer you can get, and the more primitive weapons you use, the better hunter you are. Animals evolved with each other, carving each other out. Participation in that is, in my opinion, hunting. When you leave off of that carving, and don't allow yourself to be carved by them, then you are in another realm that I don't call hunting. Marksmanship, maybe. Some consider me an elitist snob trophy hunter. But I'm just expressing an opinion and I've learned to leave others to their own devices. I only pipe up when asked. You asked.

 

[DeepCountry]

Randy, you were spot-on regarding all of this long range shooting. When did a segment of our hunting community lose sight of the hunting side of things, and begin to focus on the shooting side of things? I think that it is a general reflection of our modern society. Fat. lazy and self absorbed, they just want it the easiest way possible, all while making it about themselves. Sad, sad, sad.....

 

[James Riley]

As to the morality of not reducing prey to meat as humanely and quickly as possible, I've struggle with that over the years. However, I've gone from the common view when I was younger to a more nuanced and less empathetic view. I learned this view from wolves and mountain lion. I've watched what they do. I don't consider myself better than them. Nor do I consider prey worse off at their table than at mine.

I may be making excuses for myself, but I also think there is a shock factor that sets in. Pain is a motivator but only for so long. At some point there is futility, and I think shock brings you/them to that point, or comes shortly thereafter. I've seen prey surrender so many times.

Nevertheless, I do try for a single, lethal, quick hit. Luckily, that has always been the case, save one clean miss in the last 45 years, which still bothers me to this day. But it only bothers me because it happened in front of my young son on our first and only hunt together (to date).

 

[MN Public Hunter]

I personally think anything over 300 yards is long range and I have set a personal limit of 400 yards for myself. I'm used to getting as close to the animal as possible due to my up bringing in MN where 100 yards would be a long shot. In MN I bow hunt only so you have to get close for that. On TV when you see these people shoot 600-1200 yards I wonder how many animals they miss or wound.

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

I think that for me a long range shot, which I personally would consider unethical is 250 yds. Our gun club only has a 200 yd range, and I will need to get over there to practice that before I try anything over 150. Since I fully expect to fill my deer tag with the bow, it will be under 30. I am also hoping to fill my elk tag with the bow, but since this will be my first time hunting them I suspect that will be a long shot (not in yards though.). For someone who regularly shoots 5 or 6 hundred yards and understands how to dope the wind, it may be perfectly ethical. Since I don't, it would be unethical for me.

 

[Walkathon]

Great question. For me it is 300 yards give or take...Not sure that I understand why someone would move further away from any animal to kill it. If you just want to shoot something far away- fine, shoot a steel plate. I've seen several shows on TV lately where there is zero amount of effort to get closer to an animal so they can show how they killed something at 983 yards........Personally I don't get it. I really do appreciate marksmanship but feel like hunting and shooting long range are 2 different things.

 

[Goatshoes]

It all depends on the motivation and skill of the hunter.

For those who are long range hunting for the shooting aspect over the hunting aspect, I encourage you to find a large field full of prairie dogs and set up at the far end of it and enjoy. That is the right venue for testing that skill. Purely opinion.

 

[Cornell2012]

On TV when you see these people shoot 600-1200 yards I wonder how many animals they miss or wound.

Because of the magic of editing, we'll probably never know how many took a step or otherwise moved during the entire second that the bullet was in the air and wound up wounded as a result. At the 1000+ yard range, trying to track down an injured animal seems extremely difficult.

I will say that moving further away for the sole purpose of "getting a personal record" is unethical in my mind. If there was some practical reason to move back 50 yards (say from a 250 yd to a 300 yd shot), like obtaining a clearer shooting lane, I could understand that. Taking an action that purposefully decreases your odds of making a clean shot is just not ethical behavior.

 

[airlocksniffer]

No doubt it takes some serious skill to hit anything at those yardages. That aside, I don't really consider it hunting, rather shooting at a live target. Part of the excitement of the hunt is getting amongst the critters, the closer the better IMHO. 300 yards is a long shot for me. If I could take 100 yard shots with my rifle and 20 yard shots with my bow for the rest of my life I'd be fine with that. Legal, sure, ethical, I'm not so sure. It seems in the last few years some people have tried to turn hunting into a prick measuring contest. The furthest shot, the biggest bull, etc. Hunting is such a personal thing for me and the harvest of an animal, no matter what size, to fill my freezer and the experience I have getting that animal is what is important.

 

[Muleyfanatic]

I am a firm believer in getting closer if possible. I am very much into long range shooting though. I put roughly 500-600 rounds down range a year. I think that it is impossible to assign a yardage to being unethical. The ethical yardage for even 1 person can change dramatically from one situation to another because of external conditions. I do believe however that each shooter has to be able to determine whether the shot is ethical for them to take based on the conditions and previous range performance. I cringe every time I see some on a forum asking about ordering CDS (any ballistic turret) without ever shooting the rifle over a chronograph and VERIFYING THIS INFO WITH THE BC to get an actual dial to corrected range.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I do not agree with shots over 600 yards.

However, I think people should practice those long shots.

If you can shoot your gun accurately double the distance of what are willing to take, then the longer shots will become easier in the event that you have to take a longer shot.

 

[mtmuley]

I'll keep my thoughts on the LR thing to myself. I do however, think that the periodic hashing over and disecting of the issue is a waste of time. What Randy described of a hunter getting his "personal best" is assinine on the part of that hunter. The ability to routinely kill animals at any yardage is a personal decision. Some possess the skills and equipment to accomplish kills at distance that makes others uncomfortable. mtmuley

 

[Bugle 'Em In]

I have the "set up" to shoot long range. I've spent a lot of time at the range practicing to effectively shoot out to a lot of yards (1,000 is not an issue). I've even shot an elk at "long range", one shot and she was killed quickly. Having said that, that elk kill will be my longest "kill". Its a personal thing, but I didn't feel very good after making that shot. Ever since then, I've closed distances to as close as possible to make my shots. Again, its a personal thing but its how I've chosen to hunt going forward. To each their own.

 

[elkaholic06]

No doubt it takes some serious skill to hit anything at those yardages. That aside, I don't really consider it hunting, rather shooting at a live target. Part of the excitement of the hunt is getting amongst the critters, the closer the better IMHO. 300 yards is a long shot for me. If I could take 100 yard shots with my rifle and 20 yard shots with my bow for the rest of my life I'd be fine with that. Legal, sure, ethical, I'm not so sure. It seems in the last few years some people have tried to turn hunting into a prick measuring contest. The furthest shot, the biggest bull, etc. Hunting is such a personal thing for me and the harvest of an animal, no matter what size, to fill my freezer and the experience I have getting that animal is what is important.

Well said. I always enjoy hearing people speak of the memories from huntin' camp and the experiences shared with family. I don't care how big of a bull you shot, or how far it was. Huntin' is about God's country, family, and so many other things that are intangible and hard to explain. If you lose sight of those goals, it is no longer huntin'

 

[whiskeydog]

I really don't care how far you shoot if you are skilled at that range, however backing up and not taking the closest possible shot is where I would draw my ethical boundary...

 

[fishing4sanity]

The memories of past hunts are more about who I was hunting with, where we were, what I saw, etc., than the yardage a shot was taken from. However, one of my favorite things to do is long-range target shooting with my sons, they go through thousands of rounds a year. It's been great spending time with them, watching them make some very long shots on steel and then sneak in for a shot on an antelope with the same rifle at under 100 yards. We seem to choose our own limits of what's ethical, so stating a yardage that becomes unethical is probably meaningless. I've always told my sons to practice long, but to hunt as close as possible.

 

[LopeHunter]

As hunters, we often trade out the most ethical harvest method when we opt for a compound bow at 50 yards or a muzzleloader at 150 yards when a rifle would be more accurate and faster at those same ranges. The issue then is actually weapon specific since we intentionally allow for more primitive weapons for attempting to harvest game.

As for a rifle, I will shoot beyond 300 yards and have shot a bit over 400 yards though most of my harvests with a rifle have been under 200 yards. I need a steady rest, no significant wind, an animal in full view mostly turned sideways to me and I can not be huffing and puffing from hurrying to get in position for the shot. Maybe is being a bit older but the harvest is the least interesting portion of the hunt process that begins months before as select hunts to apply for and then wait to see which couple of hunts I actually draw then the planning for the hunt and then the hunting.

I had breakfast a couple of years ago with a guy that was on one of the cameras for a show for one season and some shots were 600 yards and beyond. As you can expect, what made it on air was about 1/3 of the shots. Too much time from hunter deciding to pull the trigger until the bullet arrives downrange. Too many ways for the wind to be misread including possibility of multiple wind currents on the path to the target. What ended up on the editing room floor would make most of us angry much less those who are not fans of hunting.

We can each attempt to mentor new hunters to appreciate what makes for an ethical shot based on the weapon choice and animal being hunted. There will be those that want the fastest car, biggest caliber, etc. Their confidence often exceeds their abilities, unfortunately.