Gritty Podcast 527: The future of hunting

[bushman13]

I could care less about rifles in Iowa, I do care about the societal and political clout we lose as our numbers tank.
Harping on goofy hunting laws from the past is just a way to get people thinking and get a conversation going. I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb if it leads to a neuron firing in a different direction.

Oh brother. I proved nothing for you. Safety is not a cultural issue. Party hunting and deer drives are and it's obvious you've never been on one the way they're done around here. If you went and changed our "culture" by outlawing party hunting and deer drives, which is how a lot of people are even given a chance to hunt deer season, you would see numbers fall farther. Even if you gave them 2 months and a rifle.

Center fire, necked cartridge rifles are not appropriate or needed for deer hunting in Iowa. Nor is a 2 month long gun season.

I don't get why you have such a hard on to see rifles in Iowa. Like I said if someone needs a rifle to kill a deer here they are a bad hunter and a rifle won't help them. I really question what you know about Iowa and the terrain. I also question what you know about the capabilities of modern slug guns, muzzle loaders and straight wall rifles. How far do out do you need the deer before you shoot?

 

[Muskeez]

Too funny! Time to do something more constructive with my time. Peace be with you!

 

[bushman13]

Peace and Chicken grease my friend.

Too funny! Time to do something more constructive with my time. Peace be with you!

 

[BlakeA]

I would rather listen to a blender chop ice for an hour than listen a Gritty Podcast. He is a

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You can get over a phobia....

I cant get over men liking other men to the point of infatuation. Sorry I am not sorry.

“I hate the rampant sycophantic behavior in the hunting industry.”

Man I am right there with you.

 

[geetar]

Jokes on you. The reason iowa has arguably the best whitetail hunting in the lower 48 is its season structure.....
Might need to find a different example to prove your point. I am far from a Call fan, in fact he rubs me the wrong way ...but i think his argument has more validity than yours.

Yep Iowa is the model for whitetail conservation.

 

[BuzzH]

AK --> FL --> GA --> FL --> CO

Yes the short seasons here make me die a little inside as well

Nothing stopping anyone from spending a week camping/scouting before the season starts....is there?

Who knows maybe the old lady and little johnnie might like that better as an introduction to hunting and the outdoors.

 

[bushman13]

Nope and that is the story of my life since moving out here, scouting. Which ironically ends up being not as important as simply figuring out where the animals go to avoid people.

This one does effect me personally, hear me out. I used every weekend from mid Oct to mid Jan to hit the woods with my rifle, for 30+ years. I can't even describe the free therapy and fun this was to a cubicle dweller.
What I would like to communicate to a hunter who primarily participates in week long seasons, take that fun and satisfaction and x it by 20. It is awesome, and because of this, I'm guessing that hunter numbers would respond. Imagine the opportunities little Johnny would have to tag along in this scenario?

In CO, after I draw my tag, imagine if it was good for all of archery (Sept) and all of gun (Oct). I still have the same 10% chance of getting an elk, but my fun factor is through the roof. I find it odd when hunters argue against their own experience, simply because that is how we have always done it.

Nothing stopping anyone from spending a week camping/scouting before the season starts....is there?

Who knows maybe the old lady and little johnnie might like that better as an introduction to hunting and the outdoors.

 

[Muskeez]

I understand what you are trying to say, but slow down and think through it; Same 10% success rate??? The more days afield the higher your chances of harvesting said animal. Correct? If not, then why go hunting more than one day??
When hunters start killing more animals tag numbers will have to be cut before populations drop drastically. Fewer tags allotted = less opportunity for new/young/all hunters. Or keep the same tag numbers and have fewer animals on the landscape after higher harvest = same thing.
I get it that you want more days in the field and you want to carry your rifle. Maybe take up coyote hunting, buy a 10/22 and start rabbit or squirrel hunting, take up grouse hunting with a shotgun. Lots of options out there for everyone.

 

[Steiny]

Nope and that is the story of my life since moving out here, scouting. Which ironically ends up being not as important as simply figuring out where the animals go to avoid people.

This one does effect me personally, hear me out. I used every weekend from mid Oct to mid Jan to hit the woods with my rifle, for 30+ years. I can't even describe the free therapy and fun this was to a cubicle dweller.
What I would like to communicate to a hunter who primarily participates in week long seasons, take that fun and satisfaction and x it by 20. It is awesome, and because of this, I'm guessing that hunter numbers would respond. Imagine the opportunities little Johnny would have to tag along in this scenario?

In CO, after I draw my tag, imagine if it was good for all of archery (Sept) and all of gun (Oct). I still have the same 10% chance of getting an elk, but my fun factor is through the roof. I find it odd when hunters argue against their own experience, simply because that is how we have always done it.

Don't get pigeon holed in on one species such as deer or elk and you can hunt from September thru January for something without too much difficulty.
Nothing stopping anyone from hitting a neighboring state either.

 

[mplane72]

I could care less about rifles in Iowa, I do care about the societal and political clout we lose as our numbers tank.
Harping on goofy hunting laws from the past is just a way to get people thinking and get a conversation going. I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb if it leads to a neuron firing in a different direction.

Increasing hunter efficacy leads to declining opportunity. Coupling that to a longer season is not a recipe for success.

I suggest you look at the other opportunities available besides rifle.

May I be banned if I reply further to this thread.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Nope and that is the story of my life since moving out here, scouting. Which ironically ends up being not as important as simply figuring out where the animals go to avoid people.

This one does effect me personally, hear me out. I used every weekend from mid Oct to mid Jan to hit the woods with my rifle, for 30+ years. I can't even describe the free therapy and fun this was to a cubicle dweller.
What I would like to communicate to a hunter who primarily participates in week long seasons, take that fun and satisfaction and x it by 20. It is awesome, and because of this, I'm guessing that hunter numbers would respond. Imagine the opportunities little Johnny would have to tag along in this scenario?

In CO, after I draw my tag, imagine if it was good for all of archery (Sept) and all of gun (Oct). I still have the same 10% chance of getting an elk, but my fun factor is through the roof. I find it odd when hunters argue against their own experience, simply because that is how we have always done it.

Meh... I was a MT resident, most people didn't hunt the majority of the season. Seemed like people went out for the archery opener, rifle opener, and then maybe a couple random weekends. Hardly anyone I talked to, hunted with, etc. hunted during the week or went out more than 4-5 days for elk. This is not to say then didn't hunt aug-jan... just that they only hunted elk 4-5 days and were hunting pronghorn, white tail, muley, ducks, turkey, etc.

I spend about the same amount of days elk hunting in CO as I did in MT as a resident.

Typically I'm far more limited by vacation days then I am but hunting season length.

 

[bushman13]

Agreed, but this is now me compensating if I go that route (which I will). Why not push the other way? Why wouldn't we all push for more days in the field?

Don't get pigeon holed in on one species such as deer or elk and you can hunt from September thru January for something without too much difficulty.
Nothing stopping anyone from hitting a neighboring state either.

 

[np307]

Have you ever spoken to someone who wanted to get involved with hunting but didn't? Or someone who did but spoke to some challenges involved? I'd really be interested to hear the person who said "man, I really want to go deer hunting but I only have a one week season." I know the most prevalent question I've encountered from people wanting to start hunting has been "where do I go?" with "is there someone who could show me the ropes?" being a close second.

 

[rwc101]

Sorely disappointed the Gritty podcast was not about

 

[JLS]

I know the most prevalent question I've encountered from people wanting to start hunting has been "where do I go?" with "is there someone who could show me the ropes?" being a close second.

Yep.

 

[Trial153]

Honeslty i think short compact seasons are the best attended. Long seasons tend to encourage procrastination...

 

[Empire State]

NY licence sales are down about 10% over the last 10 years....we have a 30 plus day rifle season state wide and even longer in the northern zone.
So it isnt rifles or the season length here. In fact most of the NE shows similar trends and seasons.

Access and demographics, along with the tread that monatized all things deer and hunting is the main issues we are facing.

The constant blame of the state fish and game departments is tedious and makes us look ignorant. The fact is most of the fish and game departments are doing a decent job with what they have available to them.
Hunters need to look no further than themselves and stop blaming eveyone else.

Agreed, access and demographics I'm a new hunter in NY, but not a new hunter. After taking years off chasing various dot com startups, have gotten beck to beginning to start hunting again. Having heck of a time even finding places to shoot, let alone hunt There is state land, but has to be researched very carefully before one grabs a gun and goes a-hunting. State forests, yes, but all have different rules. WMA, but many times there are residential development surrounding, so one needs to be very mindful of the 500 foot rule and hunting near dwellings. Various rod and gun clubs exist, ($5k to join one) but are not taking new members. I could go on... point is that I'm both motivated and smart, and have hunted in 5 other states and I will find a way to make it happen, but *really* tough for anyone new to the sport.

 

[bushman13]

Good point. I would happily pay hundreds more for a resident tag to ensure longer seasons and compensate for the non resident $ gap. Also I believe your described dichotomy exists because of how razor thin the margins on elk and mulyes are. I think they are in danger of tipping over at anytime. This isn't our fault as hunters as we do as told.

As it is now on Public land, the guys I see elk hunting are not dragging along little Johnny. In fact in 3 hunts, probably seen 60 people. I've seen one kid. Compare that to Deer Camp in Georgia, every single hunter has his kid with him. Just an observation, don't flood me with stories of youth hunters.

I understand what you are trying to say, but slow down and think through it; Same 10% success rate??? The more days afield the higher your chances of harvesting said animal. Correct? If not, then why go hunting more than one day??
When hunters start killing more animals tag numbers will have to be cut before populations drop drastically. Fewer tags allotted = less opportunity for new/young/all hunters. Or keep the same tag numbers and have fewer animals on the landscape after higher harvest = same thing.
I get it that you want more days in the field and you want to carry your rifle. Maybe take up coyote hunting, buy a 10/22 and start rabbit or squirrel hunting, take up grouse hunting with a shotgun. Lots of options out there for everyone.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Nope and that is the story of my life since moving out here, scouting. Which ironically ends up being not as important as simply figuring out where the animals go to avoid people.

This one does effect me personally, hear me out. I used every weekend from mid Oct to mid Jan to hit the woods with my rifle, for 30+ years. I can't even describe the free therapy and fun this was to a cubicle dweller.
What I would like to communicate to a hunter who primarily participates in week long seasons, take that fun and satisfaction and x it by 20. It is awesome, and because of this, I'm guessing that hunter numbers would respond. Imagine the opportunities little Johnny would have to tag along in this scenario?

In CO, after I draw my tag, imagine if it was good for all of archery (Sept) and all of gun (Oct). I still have the same 10% chance of getting an elk, but my fun factor is through the roof. I find it odd when hunters argue against their own experience, simply because that is how we have always done it.

Imagine it’s July in Iowa. You practice shooting, seek permission for access to hunt some new spots. August you hang stands and set out the game cams. Sept you look at some giants and see the velvet shed. Take a youth out for their season. Oct kicks off 10 straight weeks of bow hunting. Or hunt early muzzleloader. Dec you have one dead week where a lot of hunters stay indoors *tragic* The Other week you get 9 days of gun season on a tag that’s valid for the entire state! Then butchering, taxidermy, and Christmas venison. Round 2 of bow season for another 3 weeks into Jan. Did I mention you can buy unlimited doe tags? Feb find some great sheds.

Not everyone will enjoy hunting WT in IA, but if you do the state’s your oyster. Also, pick up a reasonably priced OTC buck tag in nearby states of MO, MN, WI, or NE if you’re set on firearm instead of bow.

Now let’s run your scenario: A long HP rifle season. It’s completely out of the question until mid-November because farmers are out harvesting. Even the second half of Nov is sketchy on late harvest years. The additional animals harvested because of efficiency reduce opportunity for the thousands of youth, young, and new hunters who primarily bowhunt. So subtract their numbers from your hunter recruitment formula. IA can no longer charge the highest price of any state for NR whitetail because of a new sea of dinks, so remove a big chunk of the NR license dollars from IA conservation. A handful of Western transplants who don’t understand short range weapon hunting take up the sport and add to hunter numbers, except they don’t make up for the losses from decreased quality and opportunity I mentioned.