Grazing cattle on public land

[ismith]

Just a thought here, but I wonder how the impact of the cattle compares to the impact of the bison they replaced?

 

[ismith]

I know how to fix this agrument!

Thanks alot buddy, I think my monitor has the clap now.

 

[ismith]

Just cause you asked.

Reminds me of a girl I used to know!

 

[bjtc_brian]

Just a thought here, but I wonder how the impact of the cattle compares to the impact of the bison they replaced?

Funny, someone else I know just said the same thing today!

 

[bjtc_brian]

Thanks alot buddy, I think my monitor has the clap now.

But at least it was happy times getting the clap!

 

[Big Shooter]

Shoots-straight......who the hell are you to say what ranchers should and shouldn't do? Why do you have to be an arrogant jackass to TRY to get your point across?

1) I don't think that any of these guys on here are trying to "privatize" the wildlife.
2) No one is or has argued the fact that the wildlife was here before the domestic livestock.
3)I don't care about the producers that run on public ground, that doesn't bother me a bit.....as a matter of fact I'm happy for them that they can summer their cows for that amount. As far as the Bison are concerned, believe me, I am not on board........but that whole deal will be "self" regulated!
4)You....or I should say...."us" sportsman should be able to spend "our" money where ever the hell we want. Nobody has said any different.
5)Good luck trying to regulate our industry. Why would you? We feed you and your family.

News Flash!!! Contrary to what some of you think.......(and I'm not trying to be a Dick by saying this) ranchers.....and farmers for that matter, are still not getting rich, but I sure wouldn't trade it for an 8 to 5!!!!

 

[174in]

Just a thought here, but I wonder how the impact of the cattle compares to the impact of the bison they replaced?

Good point,good point.Growing up here in wisconsin I see what cattle can do to stream beds and I belive they would do more damage than an elk.I also think the would eat more grass.

 

[jmcd]

Just a thought here, but I wonder how the impact of the cattle compares to the impact of the bison they replaced?

Its really quite simple, when a bison shits next to a stream its nature working in harmony. When a beef cow does it, its a subsidized evil that is destroying the public's resource. Also, I'm just guessing here, but bison would make another wonderful tool for DOW, CBD, etc. to use in their quest to f@ck up the west.

 

[jmcd]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...............
Quote:
One more thing, Shoots Straight, you have got to be about the dumbest son of a bitch posting on the internet


After this whole post you've got the ordasity to call me out? Laffin!

You could use some help. Check this out jm

http://youtu.be/nl5gBJGnaXs

You make my point better that I can myself. I will try to be less ordacious from now on.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Its really quite simple, when a bison shits next to a stream its nature working in harmony. When a beef cow does it, its a subsidized evil that is destroying the public's resource. Also, I'm just guessing here, but bison would make another wonderful tool for DOW, CBD, etc. to use in their quest to f@ck up the west.

Well I'm certainly no fan of CBD or the others, but it's interesting to see CMR's CCP mention using livestock to mimic bison grazing in an attempt to restore native forage.

Bison, also, don't tend to hang out on stream beds. They can have an impact yes, but the unrestrained use of cattle in riparian areas is well documented to have greater impacts than wildlife, and bison.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I guess maybe I didn't put it clear what I meant before. I am not saying that cows don't do any damage, I am just saying that elk can and have done more damage.

Some of this could be even less if they would put in more watering tanks. Cows will stay in close proximity to water if there is food around.

Water tankes will not draw cows away from a natural stream water is the only a third of the reason they are at the stream. In arid climates they are on streams for water, shade and it is where the best feed is.
Elk do more damage than cattle? You lost all support with that claim.

In Idaho ranchers think that they are intitled to tags in the best hunting units because they don't allow hunting on there land so the animals flock there and they need antlered permits to scare the 100 elk cow/calves off. There is you're payment now quite complaining! If you don't want elk eating the grass join a public access hunting program ( access yes, walk in access areas,or any other program) or just called every hunter you know and tell them next season to bring a friend out to hunt your land. Problem solved!

 

[Elkmagnet]

Shoots-straight......who the hell are you to say what ranchers should and shouldn't do? Why do you have to be an arrogant jackass to TRY to get your point across?

1) I don't think that any of these guys on here are trying to "privatize" the wildlife.
2) No one is or has argued the fact that the wildlife was here before the domestic livestock.
3)I don't care about the producers that run on public ground, that doesn't bother me a bit.....as a matter of fact I'm happy for them that they can summer their cows for that amount. As far as the Bison are concerned, believe me, I am not on board........but that whole deal will be "self" regulated!
4)You....or I should say...."us" sportsman should be able to spend "our" money where ever the hell we want. Nobody has said any different.
5)Good luck trying to regulate our industry. Why would you? We feed you and your family.

News Flash!!! Contrary to what some of you think.......(and I'm not trying to be a Dick by saying this) ranchers.....and farmers for that matter, are still not getting rich, but I sure wouldn't trade it for an 8 to 5!!!!

So in your last comment you are saying that ranchers, farmers and DAIRYMEN ( Receiving a large subsidies) are not getting rich let me ask you this then Where do you think they would fall on average If they sold out on all assets and got out of the business right now. Do you think they would have substantially more money than the average american? Just because they tie all of their money up in land and asset purchases to avoid paying taxes, further grow their businesses and live in a modest fashion does not mean they are not getting rich in the process. I say the more power to them but don't try to tell me its not happening the smart ones are getting rich off of subsidies.

 

[shoots-straight]

Shoots-straight......who the hell are you to say what ranchers should and shouldn't do? Why do you have to be an arrogant jackass to TRY to get your point across?

1) I don't think that any of these guys on here are trying to "privatize" the wildlife.
2) No one is or has argued the fact that the wildlife was here before the domestic livestock.
3)I don't care about the producers that run on public ground, that doesn't bother me a bit.....as a matter of fact I'm happy for them that they can summer their cows for that amount. As far as the Bison are concerned, believe me, I am not on board........but that whole deal will be "self" regulated!
4)You....or I should say...."us" sportsman should be able to spend "our" money where ever the hell we want. Nobody has said any different.
5)Good luck trying to regulate our industry. Why would you? We feed you and your family.

News Flash!!! Contrary to what some of you think.......(and I'm not trying to be a Dick by saying this) ranchers.....and farmers for that matter, are still not getting rich, but I sure wouldn't trade it for an 8 to 5!!!!

The same group of people that's getting damn tired of you trying to control me and my wildlife. The largest voting block of people in the state of Montana, that's who.

My answerer's to your rebuttals are:

1). If you belong to the MSGA, or UPOM, then yes your trying to privatize "our" wildlife.
2). You missed this one too. HB 42 in 2003 was supported by , and brought forward by, the Ranching Community. If you agree that wildlife were here first, and have a place, then this bill shouldn't have been written using such a wide brush to control elk herds statewide.
3).What are you afraid of then? Why all the Bills last session to control Bison. Your (MSGA) (UPOM)'s actions speak louder than words.

4). You talk like your all for sportsman's acquiring land to hunt on and protect wildlife, all the while you support those in your industry that do the opposite. If that's truly the case then tell your buds in those groups to back off.

I know that won't happen, because there's already bills being drawn up that say otherwise.

5). The hunters and fisherman of Montana are largest voting block in the state, by a wide margin. If we can get them organized and working together, anything is possible.
Why would we want to regulate you? Because you won't quit trying to regulate us. Get out of our departments business, and you'll stay out of our cross hairs. Continue doing what you have, and it will only get worse. We are working on the organizational part. I don't eat 5 pounds of beef in a year. Trust me, if you go away, and I feel no loss.

,The fact that most Ranchers I know are Republican and are against subsidies, but are willing to accept them is typical of hypocrites.

 

[mtlion]

Someone here said captain BJ owns this thread? LMFAO

 

[Dinkshooter]

Someone here said captain BJ owns this thread? LMFAO

Welfare ranchers stick together like birds of a feather.

 

[Nemont]

Here is the problem for people who want to end grazing on public lands. Whether you want to admit or not there has been money borrowed, capital risked, estate taxes paid etc, etc based upon the historic use of grazing permits. Banks have put a value upon those permits, our government has put a value on them through estate taxes and that fact makes ranchers feel like they have some skin in the game especially on those places that have been in the same family of over 100 years, like my inlaws.

I would challenge any of you to come out and walk the ground and be able to tell me what is deeded and what is public as it all looks pretty much the same. Jose has been over most of the place himself and I am pretty sure he couldn't tell without looking at a map.

Of course $1.35 is stupidly low to the point of being a bad political problem for public land grazers. Permitees are often their own worst enemy, the only worst enemy they have is the people who think everything east of Great Falls is all public and they will hunt where ever they want. Been in way more of those discussions than I have been in discussions about how grazing was hurting wildlife. Not every hunter but alot of them cannot read a map, don't want to walk even 100 feet and drive where they please. I can post pictures of public lands that have been grazed for 100 years that are permanently damaged by hunters on ATV's.

Just saying the issue is far more complicated than the anti grazing crowd would have you believe.

Nemont

 

[bjtc_brian]

The fact that most Ranchers I know are Republican and are against subsidies, but are willing to accept them is typical of hypocrites.

DId you stop hunting last year? Elk, deer heards are down. Just cause they offer a tag doesn't mean you need to hunt. Talk about a $*)Q!#@$ hypocrite!

I believe most on her support Block Management. SUBSIDY! Hypocrites!

 

[BuzzH]

Bigshooter...do you ever shoot anything but your mouth?

ranchers.....and farmers for that matter, are still not getting rich.

Looks to me like some Montana Farm/Ranch folks are making a little something off the taxpayer...

Wheat Subsidies** 31,245** $2,460,409,596

Conservation Reserve Program 15,951 $1,738,591,978

Disaster Payments 26,237 $641,254,460

Barley Subsidies** 30,665** $529,830,920

Livestock Subsidies 15,705** $174,660,873

Env. Quality Incentive Program 5,866 $125,488,151

Corn Subsidies** 3,726** $44,626,361

Wool Subsidies 3,746** $17,109,099

Dry Pea Subsidies 1,221** $14,584,589

Dairy Program Subsidies 245** $12,991,809

Heres a website that will shed a little light on the Republican Ranchers/Farmers who whine about welfare non-stop....maybe they should look in the fuggin' mirror every once in a while.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=30000

You can also use this site to look up your favorite hard working rancher/farmer and see how effective they are at farming/ranching the government/taxpayer.

Great site to end the bullshit perpetuated by people like jmcd and bigshooter...

 

[BuzzH]

Heres the top 20 list of CRP recipients in Montana...all have receieved 1.3 million plus:

http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=30000&progcode=total_cr&regionname=Montana

Top 20 list of wheat farmers...barely scraping by:

http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=30000&progcode=wheat&regionname=Montana

Dont forget livestock subsidies:

http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=30000&progcode=livestock&regionname=Montana

A little something for the wool growers:

http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=30000&progcode=wool&regionname=Montana

 

[bjtc_brian]

Water tankes will not draw cows away from a natural stream water!

Yes they do, and we use them very effectively to do this.

In Idaho ranchers think that they are intitled to tags in the best hunting units because they don't allow hunting on there land so the animals flock there and they need antlered permits to scare the 100 elk cow/calves off. There is you're payment now quite complaining!

Not sure how many places of business will accept a "thought of being intitled(entitled)" as payment.

If you don't want elk eating the grass join a public access hunting program ( access yes, walk in access areas,or any other program) or just called every hunter you know and tell them next season to bring a friend out to hunt your land. Problem solved!

We already let people hunt on our property free of charge!