Gray wolf population must be addressed Minnesota

[cheeser]

Gray wolf population must be addressed

Deer Hunting Season is the best time of year here in Northern Minnesota. Families get together at their hunting shacks, parents pass down their traditions to their kids, and new

www.mesabitribune.com

 

[Ben Lamb]

Oh good. Another politician trying to manage wildlife by using fear & emotion.

 

[Bowmannate2000]

They do need to be managed in northern MN. I don't think he can do anything about it but I'm glad people are talking about it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

They do need to be managed in northern MN. I don't think he can do anything about it but I'm glad people are talking about it.

MN would be wise to get a handle on the ORV use as well. Tons of studies out there showing what motorized use in Northern MN is doing to deer numbers, distrubution, etc.

And for the love of all that is holy - cut some darned trees!

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Oh good. Another politician trying to manage wildlife by using fear & emotion.

Ben, In general I agree with your sentiment, and I love hearing (pretty much every day/night) and seeing the wolves around my cabin in North central MN, but I think MN requires a little closer look. I think your generalization only addresses half the story in MN where wolves have become inherently political.

The only reason MN does not have a season on wolves purely political. Our Governor will not allow it to be considered based on politics, even though we have had three successfully executed seasons in the past, and our DNR has done the science to show that the population needs to be controlled. When the DNR published its most recent wolf plan last January they only included wolf surveys up until 2020, so I contacted the research folk who worked on the plan and asked them why they stopped publishing wolf surveys in 2020, when they had been going back decades. They sent them to me, and I believe have since published them. There was nothing in them that was shocking, and generally I don't have an issues with the 2023-2032 Wolf plan; which allows for hunting and trapping as does state law. It's a decent read: https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/wildlife/wolves/wolf-plan.pdf

MN has a higher wolf density that any state to include AK, and empirical evidence of their growth and their impacts on moose and deer.

Hunter numbers continue to drop in MN, one of the primary factors being that the public lands of northern MN, are where wolves exist and our deer numbers have been declining.

A friend of mine grew up with the trapper contracted by FWS that does wolf control near my cabin. In approximately 15 square miles, he has taken over 30 wolves in the last 3 years, and 4 years ago it was so bad for a cattle rancher immediately NW of my property that they helicopter gunned 14 wolves from within 2 miles of the pastures.

I am not advocating for extreme action, but there needs to be some balance in MN and it is drastically lacking due to politics.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

And for the love of all that is holy - cut some darned trees!

There is pretty vibrant timber management happening near me. I am wading through aspen regen all the time....

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, In general I agree with your sentiment, and I love hearing (pretty much every day/night) and seeing the wolves around my cabin in North central MN, but I think MN requires a little closer look. I think your generalization only addresses half the story in MN where wolves have become inherently political.

The only reason MN does not have a season on wolves purely political. Our Governor will not allow it to be considered based on politics, even though we have had three successfully executed seasons in the past, and our DNR has done the science to show that the population needs to be controlled. When the DNR published its most recent wolf plan last January they only included wolf surveys up until 2020, so I contacted the research folk who worked on the plan and asked them why they stopped publishing wolf surveys in 2020, when they had been going back decades. They sent them to me, and I believe have since published them. There was nothing in them that was shocking, and generally I don't have an issues with the 2023-2032 Wolf plan; which allows for hunting and trapping as does state law. It's a decent read: https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/wildlife/wolves/wolf-plan.pdf

MN has a higher wolf density that any state to include AK, and empirical evidence of their growth and their impacts on moose and deer.

Hunter numbers continue to drop in MN, one of the primary factors being that the public lands of northern MN, are where wolves exist and our deer numbers have been declining.

A friend of mine grew up with the trapper contracted by FWS that does wolf control near my cabin. In approximately 15 square miles, he has taken over 30 wolves in the last 3 years, and 4 years ago it was so bad for a cattle rancher immediately NW of my property that they helicopter gunned 14 wolves from within 2 miles of the pastures.

I am not advocating for extreme action, but there needs to be some balance in MN and it is drastically lacking due to politics.

My disdain for politicians is not partisan, I hope you know that. Dems & GOP both get votes this way and it's the critters that suffer in the end, as do we - the beneficiaries and stakeholders (check that, @Big Fin) of the public trust.

100% onboard with hunting & trapping of wolves. Always have been there, and always will be. Wolves can handle a lot of pressure biologically, and they rebound quickly. The politics not withstanding - the issue of deer in MN is complex and while wolves absolutely play a role, the loss of secure wildlife habitat, diverse habitats and the increase in both summer & winterized use make it far easier for wolves to have an outsized impact. I've yet to see any actual studies that shows where wolves are the primary driver of a decline rather than causal due to poor habitats.

When we look at recreation impacts to deer, especially during parturition and rearing of fawns - then the disturbance from humans because even greater in terms of habitat avoidance and increased mortality. Happy to look at anything that would counter this, as always.

Wolves are cool. Active management is cooler.

 

[Ben Lamb]

There is pretty vibrant timber management happening near me. I am wading through aspen regen all the time....

Deer need a variety of habitats, not just regen & young forests. Old forests provide thermal cover for winter (especially deep confier stands), swamps, etc. The UP is facing a similar issue in terms of lowered populations and habitat is a massive issue which then (again) creates the casual issue of perceived over-harvest by wolves. Further helping wolves are groomed trails, which allow them to cover more ground faster, seeking prey.

MI DNR has some good stuff: https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/deer/management/wsi.html

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

My disdain for politicians is not partisan, I hope you know that. Dems & GOP both get votes this way and it's the critters that suffer in the end, as do we - the beneficiaries and stakeholders (check that, @Big Fin) of the public trust.

100% onboard with hunting & trapping of wolves. Always have been there, and always will be. Wolves can handle a lot of pressure biologically, and they rebound quickly. The politics not withstanding - the issue of deer in MN is complex and while wolves absolutely play a role, the loss of secure wildlife habitat, diverse habitats and the increase in both summer & winterized use make it far easier for wolves to have an outsized impact. I've yet to see any actual studies that shows where wolves are the primary driver of a decline rather than causal due to poor habitats.

When we look at recreation impacts to deer, especially during parturition and rearing of fawns - then the disturbance from humans because even greater in terms of habitat avoidance and increased mortality. Happy to look at anything that would counter this, as always.

Wolves are cool. Active management is cooler.

I know you aren't partisan. I just wanted to bring up the counter argument that when the the only limiting factor in a case is political, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

I can tell you that personally I put a lot of sweat equity into managing our relatively small piece of heaven into the most ideal habitat I can, and the adjoining 50k acres of state forest has a decent mix of everything you mention for wildlife. There is a decent amount of trails, but the other day when I was out hunting, I walked off the end of an old logging road and walked for half a day without hitting another active trail, so there is some contiguous habitat.

I am not saying wolves are the Great Satan in any way, but I think in MN they are potentially a bigger part of the equation than other places. Michigan estimates 631 wolves, Wisconsin estimates 1007, and Montana 1087. Minnesota is at 2700. Hell AK only thinks they have 7k-10k. If MN has 27% of what AK does with a tiny fraction of establish wolf range, how can it not be having a impact?

 

[Tradewind]

Stay in your lane,Lamb.
Northern MN is overrun with wolves

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Stay in your lane,Lamb.
Northern MN is overrun with wolves

I very much appreciate @Ben Lamb’s opinion, and didn’t dispute any of his points. I just think wolves warrant consideration as an impact on MN Deer numbers, and that politics prevents acknowledgment of that at an official level in MN.

 

[Northwoods]

I can only speak to cook county. For the past 48 years I have either lived here, hunted here, or both almost every single year. Wolves have always been here. Deer have always been here. The past years the deer harvest in area 126 has gone from over 300 to around 150 to around 75 and now this year under 60. The deer being shot are close to houses and private fields, basically yard deer. There are zero deer left in the woods. Several things have changed over the years that are really affecting the deer heard in addition to wolf predation.

The state has greatly reduced the number of black bear tags in this area. Black bears are really hard on fawns. Additionally, there never used to be a muzzle loader season for this area because the deer heard couldn’t support it. Now for several years there has been a 16 day rifle season followed by another 16 day rifle season (modern muzzle loaders with scopes). This takes in November when the deer are most vulnerable. Between the wolves, bears, and long rifle seasons the deer heard just couldn’t keep up.

It’s sad that we can’t manage the wolf population. I’ve seen a lot less wolves in cook county the past 2 years, I’m sure they are going where there’s more food. Now we have less wolves and very few deer. It’s sad to be honest. A big lose, lose.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I know you aren't partisan. I just wanted to bring up the counter argument that when the the only limiting factor in a case is political, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

I can tell you that personally I put a lot of sweat equity into managing our relatively small piece of heaven into the most ideal habitat I can, and the adjoining 50k acres of state forest has a decent mix of everything you mention for wildlife. There is a decent amount of trails, but the other day when I was out hunting, I walked off the end of an old logging road and walked for half a day without hitting another active trail, so there is some contiguous habitat.

I am not saying wolves are the Great Satan in any way, but I think in MN they are potentially a bigger part of the equation than other places. Michigan estimates 631 wolves, Wisconsin estimates 1007, and Montana 1087. Minnesota is at 2700. Hell AK only thinks they have 7k-10k. If MN has 27% of what AK does with a tiny fraction of establish wolf range, how can it not be having a impact?

I think we may be arguing a couple of different points.

I'm not arguing that wolves do or don't have an impact on deer, I'm just stating that wolf predation is causal to other issues. We are seeing this play out across the occupied wolf areas, and there are some universal take-aways for how we manage wolves.

Those are:

1.) young of the year (YOTY) going into winter with lower fat reserves have a far less likely chance to survive winter than young with healthy reserves. Lower fat reserves come from disturbance during summer and early fall months when they are needing secure habitat for feeding. Summer habitat is every bit as critical for over-winter survival as good winter habitat.
2.) Most studies show that lowered weights for YOTY mean that they will die, regardless of what kills them. That means harsh winter likely has more to do with fawn survivability than wolf predation.
3.) Snowmachine & OTV trails create significant predation zones where both species can move a lot easier, and deer have less security than in areas where there are fewer trails.

4.) Human disturbance has outsized impacts on where deer are, and how they use the landscape.

5.) Lack of traditional significant forest management & timbering creates less open space, habitat diversity and lower carrying capacity for deer and other species, leading to lower hunter satisfaction.
.
Interesting story from MN Public Radio:

Research reveals more secrets of where wolves hunt in northern Minnesota and their impact on forests

Research published in the past month by scientists with the Voyageurs Wolf Project reveals further insights into how and where wolves in far northern Minnesota hunt for their prey, and how in some cases that hunting can have a profound impact on the region’s forests.

www.mprnews.org

 

[Ben Lamb]

Stay in your lane,Lamb.
Northern MN is overrun with wolves

Okay, Vanilli.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I very much appreciate @Ben Lamb’s opinion, and didn’t dispute any of his points. I just think wolves warrant consideration as an impact on MN Deer numbers, and that politics prevents acknowledgment of that at an official level in MN.

And to be perfectly clear, there are few people on this forum whom I respect as much as you.


















































Even when don't blindly agree with me. j/k

 

[Northwoods]

And for the love of all that is holy - cut some darned trees!

Amen!

 

[Nick87]

Oh good. Another politician trying to manage wildlife by using fear & emotion.

I'm only 36 so you'll have to excuse my ignorance has there ever been a politician who didn't use this on literally any topic they were running on? I'd sure like to think that maybe at one point they weren't all deserving of a long walk off a short plank.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'm only 36 so you'll have to excuse my ignorance has there ever been a politician who didn't use this on literally any topic they were running on? I'd sure like to think that maybe at one point they weren't all deserving of a long walk off a short plank.

If we base this on graffiti found in Pompeii, twas always thus.

Just like old people complaining about the youth.

 

[cheeser]

https://apps.dnr.wi.gov/deermetrics/DeerStats.aspx?R=HarvestHistory Wisconsin deer harvest down almost 200k deer in last 20 yrs.

https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/wildl...st/deerharvest_2022.pdf?v=2023.09.19-15.50.20 Minnesota deer harvest down from 290k deer in 2003 to 145 k this year.

Update 11-29-23 as of this a.m. the total number of deer kill registered in Upper Peninsula of Michigan is at 14200 ,last years total was 23,000. We are currently at 62% of last years kill with 2 days left. Michigan has only had the last 2 yrs with mandatory registration.

 

[cheeser]

Oh good. Another politician trying to manage wildlife by using fear & emotion.

The individual states game agency's are handcuffed by a California federal judge's ruling, the only way to make a change right now is though politicians getting the Grey wolf delisted in the great lake states with the USFS.