Grasses and fire!!!

[ELKCHSR]

I just finished a firing control methods class. The teacher that was running it, has done every thing in the fire world that there is to do over the last 36 years.
He is also a Silveculturalist (sp) and I believe a Biologist. He was saying that in some of the areas that had been burned over extra hot, that some of the native grasses that hadn't been present in the area for over fifty years had been starting to come back and showed us slides of them. I don't know the big differences of grasses yet, I am learning, but these seeds had apparently sat dormant in the soil until a fire intense enough to burn off every thing and sterilize the soil, caused them to sprout. This is a new thing they are just starting to find out and realize, so stated the teacher. I just thought I would pass on this bit of new info, just incase some in the know had not heard of it. It may be some thing some of you that are in wild land management and the studies of such to maybe look into and do some of your own studies on...Just an idea...
What you think Tyler and Buzz...

If you guy’s would like to find out more info on this, let me know, and I will gladly pass on the guy’s name and #…
You can’t ask for more than that, it may be a way to actually do some thing about the real heavy cheat grass problems. He stated the area that had been over burned had a lot of cheat grass on it…

 

[Washington Hunter]

Fire is great! We need more of it. Let it burn! I bet you're hoping for lots of fire this summer too elkchsr. Sure helps the mule deer.

 

[1_pointer]

Thanks! I've heard of fire sterilizing the soil (thanks Smokey Bear!), but didn't realize the seeds could stay dormant that long.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Seeds in the Pacific Northwest can stay dormant for hundreds of years, possibly thousands on some species, that is why when the true old growth forests kill every thing in the area that the vast forests would cover, life would come back in multifold when the life cycle of that forest was complete...

 

[Elkhunter]

Very interesting Russ.

 

[ELKCHSR]

!!!Thanks Bill!!!

 

[Ten Bears]

ELKCHSR/Elkhunter

Thanks for the info. Are you taking the class for education or work?

 

[1_pointer]

Hey Elkchsr, what's the difference between the info that you recieved and that gleaned from a book or a college education?

Guess a person doesn't have to learn everything by experience huh?

Sure, some seeds stay dormant that long, but most don't many of the early colonizers after a distrubance (fire, wind, etc) produce a lot of seed and are wind dispersed long distances. But, it is true that many that are in the soil will sprout. Depends on what specific ecosystem one refers to on the impact of either type of recolonization.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Ten, this had nothing to do with the fireing class I was taken, but the people involved happened to be in the know and happened to notice some things that were happening that were different than what they had expected. They had expected to have the area being taken over by cheat grass and this was not the case...
Tyler.
This info was found out by total accident, as I stated above, they sure weren't expecting to see natives of any sort, any where near this site. I am a true and staunch believer that learning must be done in the field and schooling should be putting names on things you already know, or to add a deeper knowledge of what you have already learned. You actually have a better understanding of what you are actually taking in, when taught like this....
Of course, not all seeds will last thru the tests of time, but if some do, then maybe this could be put on a broader scale and made to help areas come back from the raveges of none native species that took over for what ever the reasons.

 

[Nut]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELKCHSR:
I am a true and staunch believer that learning must be done in the field and schooling should be putting names on things you already know, or to add a deeper knowledge of what you have already learned. You actually have a better understanding of what you are actually taking in, when taught like this....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with that and also say the reverse can be true also. I have learned many things in a book but when the actual experience of seeing the facts in the world I was able to comprehend a heck of a lot more. It goes both way for me. ewwww that doesnt sound right

 

[ELKCHSR]

I have seen and personally expeirenced it both way's, when you go to school first, you learn all sorts of things that just don't click at first. When you are in the field first, every thing comes in its due time, then when you go to the books, a lot of things then just naturaly fall into place...
The later method just seems to be the more effective.

 

[1_pointer]

Not everything can or should be learnt from personal experience. "A wise man learns from the mistakes of others!"

However, I do concur that education can give clarity to personal experiences and vice versa.

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah, and theres also the approach I took, which was to work 6 months in the field for the FS, go to school 6 months. Best of both worlds, and no school loans!

 

[ELKCHSR]

That is a very good approach. I would honestly like your opinion on the grass and fire issue though; you are more into this actual type of stuff then the rest of us. This is not meant to be inflammatory, just an honest question.

 

[BuzzH]

I'll tell you my stance on fire and the environment...grass, forest, etc.

Besides grazing and farming, fire suppression has changed the environment and the landscape more than any other factor I can think of.

While smoky bear was a great concept, it lacked science.

Fire suppression is piss poor management, and I learned that real quick. What sense did it make to bust my ass all summer fighting fire...only to apply prescribed fire to the environment all fall?

Trees, grasses, wildlife, etc. (the environment) evolved with periodic natural fire for thousands of years before we decided to "control" it. By doing so, we've made a bigger mess than if we just let it burn. Oh, the power of eductation and hind-sight.

Based on the knowledge I've gained from work experience fighting fire, prescribed burning, vegetation mapping, forest/range inventory, various research projects and from what I learned at that stupid U of Montana's school of Forestry, I'm not suprised or shocked that native grasses come back after fire even if they've been absent for some time. Lots of seeds stay viable for incredibly long periods of time (If I believe my Range and Forestry Professors). If they didnt, they would have been wiped out long before your fire teachers "discovery".

 

[ELKCHSR]

Thanks!!! It was more than a discovery for some, but you confirmed what I have also known and understood for years, well before I ever got into fire fighting.