GMX vs E-Tip

[Mako]

Anyone use either of these? I live in a LF (lead free) state and will be using LF ammo for white tail this year. I've got my rifle sighted in with Hornady GMX's and am pretty impressed with their accuracy. That said, I've read a lot of good things about Nosler E-tips, though they are next to impossible to find anywhere. I may order some direct from the Nosler website. On paper, booth rounds seem very similar. The main difference I see is that the E-Tips are a boat-tail design, as opposed to the flat base of the GMX's.

Your inputs much obliged.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

. I've got my rifle sighted in with Hornady GMX's and am pretty impressed with their accuracy.

If it aint broke don't fix it, never leave deer to find deer. Pick your cliche but in my books you've already answered your own question.

You read a lot of pro nosler on this forum becuase it's a pro nosler forum, same as reading a lot of pro swift stuff of the African hunting forum.

Of all the mainstream mono's, nosler are by far the least popular in Australia. Is that because they're any worse than the others, no I don't believe they are. Are they better? I don't believe they are that either.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I believe their composition and design are similar enough that performance would be roughly the same. Both are guilding metal. I think you should use what's most accurate.

If you're concerned about expansion at all, I understand Barnes bullets are made with a softer copper rather than copper/zink alloy. Because of that they tend to need a little less energy to expand properly. They supposedly tend to leave more fouling in the barrel too, but in my limited experience I'd say that's been just barely noticeable.

 

[brnsvllyjohn]

I used to live in the Condor Range in Ca. so I have been using lead free a long time in some rifles. Now all of California is lead free and I have to find loads for each gun. I have 3 different brands and or loads that I hunt with. For me it is all about accuracy. What will your gun shoot? We have taken deer with Barnes in 2 -3 weights and styles of bullets. We have taken deer with GMX, Trophy Copper and even some cheap non toxic Winchester. My 7 mag likes Trophy Copper. My 7-08 likes GMX the best but will shoot Barnes almost as good. 06 is a struggle and it shoots the cheap Winchesters the best. My point is shoot what your gun likes because I can tell you the dead deer haven't noticed a difference. I have only retrieved one copper bullet in the last 10 animals and that was a Trophy Copper. It was in the off rear quarter from a face on shot. The bullet was almost perfectly mushroomed. Every thing else was a pass through but all the deer died in a reasonable distance. So I think given a decent hit on an animal they all can work. Nothing wrong with your current load if you like how it shoots. You might do better and you might not. It can get real expensive trying different brands and loads.
One more word of advice once you find that factory load you like buy enough to last a couple of seasons. Factory loads can change from year to year and then you are back to chasing the most accurate load all over again.

 

[Mako]

If it aint broke don't fix it, never leave deer to find deer. Pick your cliche but in my books you've already answered your own question.

You read a lot of pro nosler on this forum becuase it's a pro nosler forum, same as reading a lot of pro swift stuff of the African hunting forum.

Of all the mainstream mono's, nosler are by far the least popular in Australia. Is that because they're any worse than the others, no I don't believe they are. Are they better? I don't believe they are that either.

I believe their composition and design are similar enough that performance would be roughly the same. Both are guilding metal. I think you should use what's most accurate.

If you're concerned about expansion at all, I understand Barnes bullets are made with a softer copper rather than copper/zink alloy. Because of that they tend to need a little less energy to expand properly. They supposedly tend to leave more fouling in the barrel too, but in my limited experience I'd say that's been just barely noticeable.

I used to live in the Condor Range in Ca. so I have been using lead free a long time in some rifles. Now all of California is lead free and I have to find loads for each gun. I have 3 different brands and or loads that I hunt with. For me it is all about accuracy. What will your gun shoot? We have taken deer with Barnes in 2 -3 weights and styles of bullets. We have taken deer with GMX, Trophy Copper and even some cheap non toxic Winchester. My 7 mag likes Trophy Copper. My 7-08 likes GMX the best but will shoot Barnes almost as good. 06 is a struggle and it shoots the cheap Winchesters the best. My point is shoot what your gun likes because I can tell you the dead deer haven't noticed a difference. I have only retrieved one copper bullet in the last 10 animals and that was a Trophy Copper. It was in the off rear quarter from a face on shot. The bullet was almost perfectly mushroomed. Every thing else was a pass through but all the deer died in a reasonable distance. So I think given a decent hit on an animal they all can work. Nothing wrong with your current load if you like how it shoots. You might do better and you might not. It can get real expensive trying different brands and loads.
One more word of advice once you find that factory load you like buy enough to last a couple of seasons. Factory loads can change from year to year and then you are back to chasing the most accurate load all over again.

Thanks for the replies guys.

While I'm happy with the accuracy of the GMX's, the main thing I'm wanting to do is experiment. Where I live, (Commiefornia) getting the ammo you want can be really difficult (you can attest to this John), though I'm not sure what kind of hoops you Aussies need to jump through JD. We have to go through a lot of hassle just to order ammo online. It has to go to a FFL, no shipping to your door unless you have at least an 03FFL and a COE. And with this Covid crap going on, the two FFL's nearest me are appointment only for everything including ammo pick-ups, and the nearest appointments are some two weeks out. I'm in the process of getting the 03FFL and COE, hopefully get approved soon.

I want to experiment with different loads/ammo brands as I'm fairly new to big game hunting. Hornady GMX seems to be the only game in town for lead free in my neck of the woods; seems to be all anyone stocks around here. Most of what I've read about Nosler E-tips puts them pretty much on par with GMX, but I've read really good things about Barnes LRX and especially TTSX. I've got my rifle dialed in already for GMX, but what I'm noticing is that I have to fire 3 or 4 shots to "condition" the barrel before the groups tighten up. I'm reading that this is pretty normal in a lot of cases? I really don't like the idea of leaving copper fouling in the barrel for it to shoot accurately with a particular load. Am I being unreasonable in thinking that I shouldn't feel like I should need to make it a point to get out to the range to fire 3 or 4 rounds to "condition" my barrel before deer season starts? Or clean my barrel at the range at the end of a session and then fire 3 or 4 rounds before I leave for the day to make sure the barrel is conditioned and ready for action so to speak?


I'm mostly wanting to try the E-Tips, as well as LRX, and TTSX to see if they will fire accurately from a "clean" barrel. Am I off in thinking this way?

 

[brnsvllyjohn]

I have no problem hunting with a barrel that is not spotless. Typically I dont even trust the first couple of shots after I have done a complete copper removal and deep cleaning. I only remove copper after a year or more or if my groups start to open up. Some rifles do better with a slightly fouled barrel.

According to the info I can find my Trophy Copper are Nosler bullets yet my 7 mag shoots the Trophy Copper better than it shoots E-Tips. My buddies 30-06 doesn't like the Trophy Copper but loves the E-Tips. No idea what your gun will like.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

Lots of loads throw a cold bore shot, of all you have mentioned my favourite has been TTSX.

This is not a criticism but I have noticed lots of guys these days are so obsessed with accuracy (I went through that phase). In that they need sub sub moa groups to be happy. I used to screw around with loads until they were clover leafing. Truth is most people in the field under the pump can't shoot sub moa themselves. If you're shooting to 300 yards max like 90% of hunters 1.5" groups are still in the vitals at your max range. All the older hunters I know never bothered as much as our generation, most hunt to the same ranges and end up with the same results.

There's no harm in wanting things tighter but if your cold/clean bore shots are still within good groupings I wouldn't bother changing. With smokeless there's no harm leaving the bore a little dirty anyway prior to hunting.

P.s. for what it's worth It sounds like getting ammo is more challenging for you in CA than for me in Aus!

 

[morgaj1]

Lots of loads throw a cold bore shot, of all you have mentioned my favourite has been TTSX.

This is not a criticism but I have noticed lots of guys these days are so obsessed with accuracy (I went through that phase). In that they need sub sub moa groups to be happy. I used to screw around with loads until they were clover leafing. Truth is most people in the field under the pump can't shoot sub moa themselves. If you're shooting to 300 yards max like 90% of hunters 1.5" groups are still in the vitals at your max range. All the older hunters I know never bothered as much as our generation, most hunt to the same ranges and end up with the same results.

There's no harm in wanting things tighter but if your cold/clean bore shots are still within good groupings I wouldn't bother changing. With smokeless there's no harm leaving the bore a little dirty anyway prior to hunting.

P.s. for what it's worth It sounds like getting ammo is more challenging for you in CA than for me in Aus!

I agree that our uncles and grandfathers had similar success with rifles shooting less accurate groups. However, I had an uncle that hunted with an old Garand, in his work jeans and flannels while smoking cigarettes. I choose to hunt, being mindful of scent, with a rifle shooting <1MOA, to increase my odds of success.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

I agree that our uncles and grandfathers had similar success with rifles shooting less accurate groups. However, I had an uncle that hunted with an old Garand, in his work jeans and flannels while smoking cigarettes. I choose to hunt, being mindful of scent, with a rifle shooting <1MOA, to increase my odds of success.

I don't hunt in camo anymore and so far it has not impacted my ability to get as close to animals at all. A lot of what people consider essential these days in my experience isn't necessary. It's a generation of gear heads, but that pales in comparison to knowledge of animals and the ability to hunt. Each to there own though.

 

[Mako]

Lots of loads throw a cold bore shot, of all you have mentioned my favourite has been TTSX.

This is not a criticism but I have noticed lots of guys these days are so obsessed with accuracy (I went through that phase). In that they need sub sub moa groups to be happy. I used to screw around with loads until they were clover leafing. Truth is most people in the field under the pump can't shoot sub moa themselves. If you're shooting to 300 yards max like 90% of hunters 1.5" groups are still in the vitals at your max range. All the older hunters I know never bothered as much as our generation, most hunt to the same ranges and end up with the same results.

There's no harm in wanting things tighter but if your cold/clean bore shots are still within good groupings I wouldn't bother changing. With smokeless there's no harm leaving the bore a little dirty anyway prior to hunting.

P.s. for what it's worth It sounds like getting ammo is more challenging for you in CA than for me in Aus!

I’m probably reading way too much into it. I’ve read on several forums and seen videos from several hunters stating that they need to fire a few “conditioning” shots before their rifles “settle in,” so I am likely making much about nothing. I do want to get my hands on some TTSX’s though. I hear/read nothing but accolades for that round. It also has quite the reputation for being a shoulder buster and driving on through.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

I’m probably reading way too much into it. I’ve read on several forums and seen videos from several hunters stating that they need to fire a few “conditioning” shots before their rifles “settle in,” so I am likely making much about nothing. I do want to get my hands on some TTSX’s though. I hear/read nothing but accolades for that round. It also has quite the reputation for being a shoulder buster and driving on through.

I find the best thing about the ttsx over say the tsx is that it opens more readily. Even on lighter game like fallow does that weigh 90lb, a shot that doesnt connect on heavy bone still seems to open up well in 7mm and 30 cals in my experience. I currently run TTSX in my 30-06, atomic 29 in my 9.3x62 (aussie made mono), bought some minoflex mono's for my muzzleloader and norma oryx in my 275 (bonded lead).

For big game we're not yet forced to use lead free (we are for ducks) but I'm moving away from them of my own accord. When I run out of Oryx as much as I love them I'll move to TTSX.

 

[GlockZ]

Shoot mostly Barnes TTSX out of my rifles, have tried the GMX's as well, both work well and are accurate. I did try the E-tips in 30 cal, but I guess I didn't try enough different powders, because I just couldn't get them to group well. I really wanted the E-tips to work for me. The Nosler AB's & BT's are very accurate out all my rifles and both are amazing hunting bullets. Anyways, whatever you choose I hope it works out for you.

 

[antelopedundee]

Would a .25 cal Barnes 80 grain TTSX bullet blow up on a critter inside of 200 yards? MV estimated to be in excess of 3600fps.

 

[JLS]

I’m really not sure why you feel the need to clean all the copper out of your bore. You’re creating your own dilemma.

 

[Mako]

I find the best thing about the ttsx over say the tsx is that it opens more readily. Even on lighter game like fallow does that weigh 90lb, a shot that doesnt connect on heavy bone still seems to open up well in 7mm and 30 cals in my experience. I currently run TTSX in my 30-06, atomic 29 in my 9.3x62 (aussie made mono), bought some minoflex mono's for my muzzleloader and norma oryx in my 275 (bonded lead).

For big game we're not yet forced to use lead free (we are for ducks) but I'm moving away from them of my own accord. When I run out of Oryx as much as I love them I'll move to TTSX.

That's how it started here in CA; no lead for waterfowl, then for all game birds. It's OK though because a lot of the ammo replacing lead performs just as well or even better.

 

[Mako]

I’m really not sure why you feel the need to clean all the copper out of your bore. You’re creating your own dilemma.

Yeah, I think I'm making much ado about nothing. From what I'm reading in different places a little copper in the barrel is actually a good thing.

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't use premium bullet's for anything but speaking of a clean barrel, with my cup and core bullet's, if I leave the barrel a bit fouled it seem's to let me avoid fouling shot's. If I get it to clean seem's I always need fouling shots. But for big game hunting, the size group the fouling shots may provide shouldn't make a bit of difference on shooting game. Tiny group's on paper are the product of ego, yea, me too!

 

[mtmuley]

Would a .25 cal Barnes 80 grain TTSX bullet blow up on a critter inside of 200 yards? MV estimated to be in excess of 3600fps.

A Hammer won't. Pretty sure the guys have killed deer with a 70 grain .243 at or near that speed. mtmuley

 

[Mako]

I find the best thing about the ttsx over say the tsx is that it opens more readily. Even on lighter game like fallow does that weigh 90lb, a shot that doesnt connect on heavy bone still seems to open up well in 7mm and 30 cals in my experience. I currently run TTSX in my 30-06, atomic 29 in my 9.3x62 (aussie made mono), bought some minoflex mono's for my muzzleloader and norma oryx in my 275 (bonded lead).

For big game we're not yet forced to use lead free (we are for ducks) but I'm moving away from them of my own accord. When I run out of Oryx as much as I love them I'll move to TTSX.

Shoot mostly Barnes TTSX out of my rifles, have tried the GMX's as well, both work well and are accurate. I did try the E-tips in 30 cal, but I guess I didn't try enough different powders, because I just couldn't get them to group well. I really wanted the E-tips to work for me. The Nosler AB's & BT's are very accurate out all my rifles and both are amazing hunting bullets. Anyways, whatever you choose I hope it works out for you.

I take it that the two of you are happy with Barnes quality then. I know that a couple years back they were purchased by Freedom group, which in turn was absorbed by Remington outdoors, which is owned by Cerberus group. Generally speaking, in case neither of you were familiar, Cerberus group has a reputation for buying distressed companies, and implementing severe cost cutting measures to squeeze out as much profit as possible rather than trying to help turn the companies around. There were complaints and some videos showing ammunition whose case necks weren’t sized properly, resulting in you being able to spin the bullets inside the case neck between your thumb and forefinger.

 

[GlockZ]

I take it that the two of you are happy with Barnes quality then. I know that a couple years back they were purchased by Freedom group, which in turn was absorbed by Remington outdoors, which is owned by Cerberus group. Generally speaking, in case neither of you were familiar, Cerberus group has a reputation for buying distressed companies, and implementing severe cost cutting measures to squeeze out as much profit as possible rather than trying to help turn the companies around. There were complaints and some videos showing ammunition whose case necks weren’t sized properly, resulting in you being able to spin the bullets inside the case neck between your thumb and forefinger.

I know the Cerberus group well, they tried to purchase the company I work for back in 2008 when the economy took a hit, just after they purchased the Chrysler Group, the deal fell thru though, it was my understanding that Cerberus lacked the capital needed after they took over Chrysler. As for the quality of Barnes bullets, the TTSX has definitely served me well and I will use as long as I can.