FWP Sidestepping Public Comment Period?

[Schaaf]

It appears Montana FWP is sidestepping their public involvement requirements when it comes to Elk Management.

@golfer tipped me off that their most recent Elk Master List is vastly different than what was in the handouts at every meeting across the state. It's hard to argue for or against something when you have no idea it is even on the table. Blindsided by the Department.

The proposed new baseline for the quota range in 410-20 Rifle Bull Tag was the previous max and are proposing to double the quota range.

They are proposing to DOUBLE the bull harvest for the 417-20 Rifle Bull Tag, once again this wasn't on any of the handouts or even up for discussion at the public meetings.

Better yet, if you go to the FWP Season Setting Page(2020-2021 Season Setting), the most recent document hasn't even been updated on the website to reflect these changes.

You have to dig deeper to find the most recent Elk Master List with the current proposed changes. Current- 2020-2021 Season Setting Proposal

Considering the public comment period for these changes closed on January 27th, reach out to the Commissioners and voice your opinion.

FWP Commissioners

 

[MTGomer]

Instead of turning more units into decent hunting like the breaks is, we should turn the breaks into another overran raghorn factory.

 

[----]

Also of note in unit 417- they have been killing bulls on damage hunts this winter. I don't know what's going on in region 4 right now, but I don't like it.

 

[bigsky2]

The Breaks used to be world class elk hunting, it is sad to see what they have become. I feel really bad for all the guys that have been holding out for one of those rifle permits for 15+ years. They are already giving out too many tags and this is just another huge step in the wrong direction.

 

[fachries]

The Breaks used to be world class elk hunting, it is sad to see what they have become. I feel really bad for all the guys that have been holding out for one of those rifle permits for 15+ years. They are already giving out too many tags and this is just another huge step in the wrong direction.

+1

 

[406LIFE]

Spoke with the biologist of unit:

Regarding 417:

• The public meeting in Lewistown and Winnet from sportsmen and landowners was to increase cow harvest. Landowners and sportsmen also wanted increase in bull tags.
• The proposed increased in 417-20 tags is in direct response to public feedback; hence it wasn't on the initial proposal.
• Groups of 200 bulls (ALL bulls) are mowing down hay; those being used are from the undrawn pool.

Re 410

• Range for quota is being increased, not actual tags. This is to give the biologist room to work in the future if needed.
• 410 is getting a full survey this year. Increase in tags will be based on that.
• 2018 count was 1021 bulls; 700 were browtined bulls; count after the hunting season. 70% of bull harvest is taken with archery gear.

 

[timmy]

They need to be cleaned out from top to bottom. In all honesty though even had you given public comment it would have been ignored. They do what they want.

 

[golfer]

Spoke with the biologist of unit:

Regarding 417:

• The public meeting in Lewistown and Winnet from sportsmen and landowners was to increase cow harvest. Landowners and sportsmen also wanted increase in bull tags.
• The proposed increased in 417-20 tags is in direct response to public feedback; hence it wasn't on the initial proposal.
• Groups of 200 bulls (ALL bulls) are mowing down hay; those being used are from the undrawn pool.

Re 410

• Range for quota is being increased, not actual tags. This is to give the biologist room to work in the future if needed.
• 410 is getting a full survey this year. Increase in tags will be based on that.
• 2018 count was 1021 bulls; 700 were browtined bulls; count after the hunting season. 70% of bull harvest is taken with archery gear.

Some of those points were brought up during the Lewistown and Great Falls meeting for 417. The only thing that was mentioned about 410 was cow tagsnothing had been mentioned at either about adjustment of quota range for bull tags.

 

[Schaaf]

Like I said in the original post, it’s hard to argue against the increase in bull tags if you have no idea that it is on the table.

FWP still has a game damage hunt. If someone is getting their hay mowed down by a stampede of bulls they need to use the resources they have and not slide some BS line in at the last minute.

 

[----]

Groups of 200 bulls (ALL bulls) are mowing down hay; those being used are from the undrawn pool.

I'll sit by and wait for pictures of these bachelor herds of 200 bulls. If that's true that's 20-40k worth of sheds they'll pick up this spring, on top of the lease they get from Armell's Creek for the hunting rights. I think they'll be okay.

Range for quota is being increased, not actual tags. This is to give the biologist room to work in the future if needed.

Room to work in one direction, but not the other.

Give me an effing break.

 

[bigsky2]

Spoke with the biologist of unit:

Regarding 417:

• The public meeting in Lewistown and Winnet from sportsmen and landowners was to increase cow harvest. Landowners and sportsmen also wanted increase in bull tags.
• The proposed increased in 417-20 tags is in direct response to public feedback; hence it wasn't on the initial proposal.
• Groups of 200 bulls (ALL bulls) are mowing down hay; those being used are from the undrawn pool.

Re 410

• Range for quota is being increased, not actual tags. This is to give the biologist room to work in the future if needed.
• 410 is getting a full survey this year. Increase in tags will be based on that.
• 2018 count was 1021 bulls; 700 were browtined bulls; count after the hunting season. 70% of bull harvest is taken with archery gear.

You mean you actually got a hold of her? You are one of the lucky few.

 

[MTGomer]

Spoke with the biologist of unit:

Regarding 417:

• The public meeting in Lewistown and Winnet from sportsmen and landowners was to increase cow harvest. Landowners and sportsmen also wanted increase in bull tags.
• The proposed increased in 417-20 tags is in direct response to public feedback; hence it wasn't on the initial proposal.
• Groups of 200 bulls (ALL bulls) are mowing down hay; those being used are from the undrawn pool.

Re 410

• Range for quota is being increased, not actual tags. This is to give the biologist room to work in the future if needed.
• 410 is getting a full survey this year. Increase in tags will be based on that.
• 2018 count was 1021 bulls; 700 were browtined bulls; count after the hunting season. 70% of bull harvest is taken with archery gear.

well, if both of the people that live in Winnett want it, better do it.

 

[TheTone]

Stored hay is about the easiest thing I can think of to protect from winter game damage.

 

[Labman]

It appears Montana FWP is sidestepping their public involvement requirements when it comes to Elk Management.

@golfer tipped me off that their most recent Elk Master List is vastly different than what was in the handouts at every meeting across the state. It's hard to argue for or against something when you have no idea it is even on the table. Blindsided by the Department.

The proposed new baseline for the quota range in 410-20 Rifle Bull Tag was the previous max and are proposing to double the quota range.View attachment 127591

They are proposing to DOUBLE the bull harvest for the 417-20 Rifle Bull Tag, once again this wasn't on any of the handouts or even up for discussion at the public meetings.
View attachment 127596
Better yet, if you go to the FWP Season Setting Page(2020-2021 Season Setting), the most recent document hasn't even been updated on the website to reflect these changes.

You have to dig deeper to find the most recent Elk Master List with the current proposed changes. Current- 2020-2021 Season Setting Proposal

Considering the public comment period for these changes closed on January 27th, reach out to the Commissioners and voice your opinion.

FWP Commissioners

I see they are going to add 3 more units and 300 tags to the 900-20 archery hunt. Who is running this show? A clown? Whoever it is they have obviously not tried to hunt that permit on public ground in the Custer Nat Forest.

 

[BRI]

Not valid on Forest Service land. That's good since there isn't any in 417.

 

[Schaaf]

Stored hay is about the easiest thing I can think of to protect from winter game damage.

200 Bulls. Hide your kids and wife.

 

[golfer]

I see they are going to add 3 more units and 300 tags to the 900-20 archery hunt. Who is running this show? A clown? Whoever it is they have obviously not tried to hunt that permit on public ground in the Custer Nat Forest.

Some of the units added to the 900 are required because the unit has a special draw rifle tag, so therefore to archery hunt those district your must draw a permit.

 

[Sioux33]

This is the boiling point of not following the elk management plan and IMO a preview of what we have to look forward to in a number of units in the years ahead.

95% of the elk in 417 sit on the Horse Ranch all fall, untouchable unless you can pony up $10k for a bull. Those elk should be excluded from the population, if the FWP had any resemblance of a back bone and actually followed the EMP. But instead, they're going to double the tags, so 99% of those tagholders are gonna piss pound the last remaining few elk on public. All the while, the landowners and outfitters are laughing all the way to the bank.

And what they're doing in 410 is just unexplainable. To not even put it on the meeting agenda and just ram it through because a few people commented on it is beyond ridiculous, especially for one of the few remaining top tier units in the state.

Just the FWP doin what they do, settin new lows every year.

 

[Nameless Range]

Spoke with the biologist of unit......

Thanks for looking into that 406LIFE.

To the title of this thread, it sure seems like the answer is yes, FWP making changes that 90% of Montanans did not get to comment on. The folks in Winnet and Lewistown should not have special privilege to request ad hoc changes to elk management more than any other Montanan, and it is BS.

 

[MTGomer]

The only logical next step is to simplify the regulations.
$200 should get you 5 elk of any sex, anywhere in the state that is public or you have permission, any weapon, August 1-March 1, with leeway to add damage hunts in the off season.
Still wouldn’t be enough for most people, but we are all about compromise.