Families for Outdoor Recreation
- Thread starter Nemont
- Start date
**CLICK ME**** 
Public lands aren't being closed off, and the reason these groups are winning the battles they're fighting is that they have the law on their side. If they didn't, there's no way they'd be winning while this administration is in place.
Where is the mandate that says the government must provide means for every single resident to access wilderness areas? Doesn't the very definition of wilderness preclude good access?
Looks like hunters have until Sept. 1 to get their comments in if they want to be able to enjoy the outdoors without the incessant whine of ATVs and the smell of exhaust fumes.
Oak
BuzzH
Well-known member
"Cook said he is frustrated that environmental groups, such as the Sierra Club, seem to be winning the battle to close off public lands. It's unfair to restrict use because that makes it especially difficult for the elderly, the very young and the physically disabled to access wilderness areas, he said.
I think the word "wilderness" needs to be used a little more carefully.
The disabled, young, and old will never have easy access to wilderness areas, wont happen. Thats not the intent of true wilderness...they need to read the wilderness act.
I think what they mean is the "National Forests" instead of wilderness. I agree that the disabled should be able to access quality backcountry areas, I dont think anyone has ever had a problem with that.
However, in my experience, the people that cry about losing access are typically unwilling to walk anywhere and want to DRIVE everywhere on a machine. There is a balance, and we'll find that balance when a lot more areas are off limits to mechanized travel. I believe that 380,000 miles of roads on National Forests, and many thousands more miles of roads gives people plenty of options for mechanized travel...
I think the word "wilderness" needs to be used a little more carefully.
The disabled, young, and old will never have easy access to wilderness areas, wont happen. Thats not the intent of true wilderness...they need to read the wilderness act.
I think what they mean is the "National Forests" instead of wilderness. I agree that the disabled should be able to access quality backcountry areas, I dont think anyone has ever had a problem with that.
However, in my experience, the people that cry about losing access are typically unwilling to walk anywhere and want to DRIVE everywhere on a machine. There is a balance, and we'll find that balance when a lot more areas are off limits to mechanized travel. I believe that 380,000 miles of roads on National Forests, and many thousands more miles of roads gives people plenty of options for mechanized travel...
Wapiti Slayer
New member
I can agree with that and well put Buzz! Putting it like that goes a lot further in people respecting your opinion than EG and his FAT ASS ATV comments.
JoseCuervo
New member
WapSlap,
You see, that is the beauty of the process. You can either listen to Me at my extreme, or you can embrace Buzz (and other professional land managers) in the Middle of the Road.
But if it weren't for the Extreme, you would never find the Middle of the Road. I make no apologies for looking for the Extreme.
You see, that is the beauty of the process. You can either listen to Me at my extreme, or you can embrace Buzz (and other professional land managers) in the Middle of the Road.
But if it weren't for the Extreme, you would never find the Middle of the Road. I make no apologies for looking for the Extreme.
That was very well said Buzz...
That is some thing that I have disagreements with quite a number of individuals, especially when I was in collage, just not really that long ago, the over use of Wildrness and the misconseptions that are brought about by the way it is portrayed...
That is some thing that I have disagreements with quite a number of individuals, especially when I was in collage, just not really that long ago, the over use of Wildrness and the misconseptions that are brought about by the way it is portrayed...
Wapiti Slayer
New member
Elkcummer, I'm more middle of the road myself, but consider you as a total Idiot with the way you present any problem at all. All you're here to do is piss people off and it's beyond ridiculous. Nobody gives you any credibility because of your dumbass comments you make all the time. Take a look around, maybe 2 people agree with the crap you sling! You seem like an attention hog, yuppie, frat boy, that Mommy spoiled and always has to have his way! Poking fun here and there is fine, but you truly are a worthless, good for nothing PRICK!
Just a single quote to prove my point!
Gunner does it all the time, I don't respect anything he has to say, too me he is nothing more than the class clown, He tries to be like Moosie and is an absolute failure at it.
Get over yourself and realize that there are a lot of good people on this board who would post about the issues that are brought up. But they stay away from posting because you and a few others are nothing but assholes who won't listen to anything anyone else has to say without being a PRICK about it.
[ 04-25-2004, 19:03: Message edited by: Wapiti Slayer ]
WS- What's wrong with being a 'frat boy'???? I'm one. I take offense to the negative conotation you tried to use that phrase. Just a little clue about my frat*. A member of my chapter was Vice President of the United States. We had the highest GPA on campus 3 of the 4 years I was there. This at a college where close to 85% of all students recieve a graduate degree of some kind. The acceptance rate into medical school by applicants from my college is over 90%. We had the highest GPA for all chapters in the world for 2 years. In the four years I was in college our house GPA was never under 3.1 (on a 4.0 scale). We raised thousands of dollars a year for the local Boys and Girls club by working concession at a local festival and running our own fundraisers.
So, can you still tell me that being in a fraternity is all bad???
*It's fraternity, not frat.
So, can you still tell me that being in a fraternity is all bad???
*It's fraternity, not frat.
BuzzH
Well-known member
WS, also, gunner gets his way on these issues because he's involved, so are a lot of other people.
It doesnt matter what you think personally about gunner, on most of these issues things are either going his way or are GOING to head his way in the future.
Go to any FS, G&F, BLM, etc. etc. meeting and you'll find out whats being discussed and by whom.
The ones I've attended lately, almost without fail, ATV issues come up, public access comes up, and a few other topics are pretty common as well.
With ZERO exceptions, the majority at the meetings I've attended want tighter controls on ATV's and they want more areas off limits to motorized access.
Also, during open comment periods on Management plans and proposals, A VAST majority of comments received are FOR more road closures, more restrictions on ATV's and less access by motorized vehicles.
The agencies in charge of public lands do in fact listen to whats said at meetings and what is written in the comments. They base decisions on the demands of the public.
So, on these issues, the reason theres more and more restrictions being put on ATV's is because the land managers are listening to the people who take the time to comment.
I cant think of a better reason to get your voice heard or to be active in the management of your public lands.
Theres way, way, way too many people on this board that have probably never taken the time to comment on any issues related to hunting, access, etc., but spend hours upon hours fighting, bitching, and moaning on these boards. If you want things to go your way, you have to fight for it, it will not be handed to you. And, that is where you're wrong about gunner and a few others, they dont get anything handed to them, they fight for it, and they are winning. That is the way the system works, like it or not, frat or no frat.
It doesnt matter what you think personally about gunner, on most of these issues things are either going his way or are GOING to head his way in the future.
Go to any FS, G&F, BLM, etc. etc. meeting and you'll find out whats being discussed and by whom.
The ones I've attended lately, almost without fail, ATV issues come up, public access comes up, and a few other topics are pretty common as well.
With ZERO exceptions, the majority at the meetings I've attended want tighter controls on ATV's and they want more areas off limits to motorized access.
Also, during open comment periods on Management plans and proposals, A VAST majority of comments received are FOR more road closures, more restrictions on ATV's and less access by motorized vehicles.
The agencies in charge of public lands do in fact listen to whats said at meetings and what is written in the comments. They base decisions on the demands of the public.
So, on these issues, the reason theres more and more restrictions being put on ATV's is because the land managers are listening to the people who take the time to comment.
I cant think of a better reason to get your voice heard or to be active in the management of your public lands.
Theres way, way, way too many people on this board that have probably never taken the time to comment on any issues related to hunting, access, etc., but spend hours upon hours fighting, bitching, and moaning on these boards. If you want things to go your way, you have to fight for it, it will not be handed to you. And, that is where you're wrong about gunner and a few others, they dont get anything handed to them, they fight for it, and they are winning. That is the way the system works, like it or not, frat or no frat.
Wapiti Slayer
New member
That's all fine and I have no problem with anything either of you two said! BUT EG is a complete asshole who cannot act in a civil manner and respect anyone elses opinion without calling them names or pissing people off. I would not be the asshole I'm being if he would act civil! The same goes for what Elkchsr is doing, in a way more extreme manner, but you get the idea! People are sick and tired of his shit, calling everyone FAT ASS ATV riders and everything else he says. He does nothing but put people down and be-little them every chance he gets! Until he can be civil with other people, I will ride his worthless ass to the end! If you can't see what he does you better open your $*)Q!#@$ eyes! You're no better than him if you can't see it! It isn't just ATV issues, it's everything he posts about on almost every topic. Buzz I respect you for saying what you think in a civil manner and as you seen I complimented you for it.So when EGs at these meeting does he start everthing off with FAT ASS ATV RIDERS? Hmmmmmmm maybe now you know WTF I'm saying!
