Draft Elk Management Plan is out

[Flatbrimmer]

View attachment 281610

You mofos crack me up

 

[MTLabrador]

The whole opening up additional bull harvest to drop populations is stupid, and I’ll be commenting on that. However, when I look at the districts I like to hunt I’m a lot happier with this than the previous plan. In a few areas they significantly increased objectives.

 

[Bambistew]

There was a lot of work put into this.

What's that saying? A turd rolled in glitter is just a shiny turd.

Look at the B:C ratio in the Elkhorns (380) and compare to many OTC units. That's just sad for a coveted LE permit.20:100?

Almost all units are in the low teens, some were single digits? How accurate are these, and are they really managing for those levels? With exception of just a few areas in CO that are in the teens, every other unit (most are OTC) have B:C ratios 1.5-2x MT. And don't forget, CO sucks, and has too much pressure, etc, etc... You know what they do have? 2x as many bulls to hunt every fall. haha

 

[R.K.]

There was a lot of work put into this.

What's that saying? A turd rolled in glitter is just a shiny turd.

Look at the B:C ratio in the Elkhorns (380) and compare to many OTC units. That's just sad for a coveted LE permit.20:100?

Almost all units are in the low teens, some were single digits? How accurate are these, and are they really managing for those levels? With exception of just a few areas in CO that are in the teens, every other unit (most are OTC) have B:C ratios 1.5-2x MT. And don't forget, CO sucks, and has too much pressure, etc, etc... You know what they do have? 2x as many bulls to hunt every fall. haha

Twice the RATIO. Can’t forget they have 2x total on top of that, meaning they have 4X THE BULLS THAT MONTANA DOES.

Might be next week until I can dig into that. But I really hope I can.

 

[RobG]

Bottom of page 56:

"Under circumstances where an HD is chronically and significantly over the stated population size goal and is using limited either-sex permits or limited bull permits, FWP will propose to allow a brow-tined-bull or any bull on a General Elk License regulation type. This may be in addition to antlerless opportunity on the General Elk License. Chronically and significantly over population size goal is defined as being the mid-range of population goal above the top of the goal range (i.e., if the goal range is 100-200, then mid-range is 150 and mid-range above the top would be 350) for 3 or more consecutive years without a demonstrable change in population trajectory."

Nice catch. We’ll have to stay on top of that clause to get that “bull” removed.

 

[rogerthat]

Nice catch. We’ll have to stay on top of that clause to get that “bull” removed.

Yeah that’s some bull chit for sure. Pun intended.

 

[mtnkid85]

Bottom of page 56:

"Under circumstances where an HD is chronically and significantly over the stated population size goal and is using limited either-sex permits or limited bull permits, FWP will propose to allow a brow-tined-bull or any bull on a General Elk License regulation type. This may be in addition to antlerless opportunity on the General Elk License. Chronically and significantly over population size goal is defined as being the mid-range of population goal above the top of the goal range (i.e., if the goal range is 100-200, then mid-range is 150 and mid-range above the top would be 350) for 3 or more consecutive years without a demonstrable change in population trajectory."

On page 19 under Bull age structure.

"Regulation changes in Montana that have increased numbers and ages of bulls have not resulted in an increase in recruitment indicating factors other than number of bulls or number of adult bulls in the population are more important to pregnancy and calf survival. Increasing bull:cow ratios or changing bull harvest structure is unlikely to have much effect on herd productivity"

Seems to contradict the desire to throw open the bull killing gates on over objective LE units.

 

[jmcd]

Prediction….Elk hunting and quality in MT will likely get worse, not better. MTFWP is a joke

 

[TheTone]

Prediction….Elk hunting and quality in MT will likely get worse, not better. MTFWP is a joke

There are plenty of elk; I just saw a post from a bio very excited about the big cow/calf group they saw.

 

[rogerthat]

On page 19 under Bull age structure.

"Regulation changes in Montana that have increased numbers and ages of bulls have not resulted in an increase in recruitment indicating factors other than number of bulls or number of adult bulls in the population are more important to pregnancy and calf survival. Increasing bull:cow ratios or changing bull harvest structure is unlikely to have much effect on herd productivity"

Seems to contradict the desire to throw open the bull killing gates on over objective LE units.

Maybe I’m not understanding the point FWP was making with that statement but my first reaction is “no chit Sherlock”. Why do these clowns keep talking about bulls and population recruitment and management? You don’t increase the numbers and age of bulls to increase your herd size. That’s common sense. Hunter satisfaction should be increased however. Cow management equals population, bulls equal hunt quality and hunter satisfaction. Elementary Watson

 

[jmcd]

There are plenty of elk; I just saw a post from a bio very excited about the big cow/calf group they saw.

Curious if it was actually seen or estimated from data collected during random phone surveys…..

 

[Eric Albus]

I have not had time to read thru this yet. But at a glance why don’t we put cows in general license in over objective LE areas? Along with instituting mandatory harvest reporting, when objective harvest number is met, close season….kinda like in the unlimited sheep area. Works for bighorns, should work on cow elk. Maybe that’s to easy and effective?

 

[antlerradar]

I have not had time to read thru this yet. But at a glance why don’t we put cows in general license in over objective LE areas? Along with instituting mandatory harvest reporting, when objective harvest number is met, close season….kinda like in the unlimited sheep area. Works for bighorns, should work on cow elk. Maybe that’s to easy and effective?

Except for the Custer we have cows and spikes on general license all ready in 799. Happy that a general is not good on the Custer. The last thing the Custer needs is more people looking for a cow or spike elk with a deer tag burning a hole in there back pocket.

 

[Carnage2011]

Except for the Custer we have cows and spikes on general license all ready in 799. Happy that a general is not good on the Custer. The last thing the Custer needs is more people looking for a cow or spike elk with a deer tag burning a hole in there back pocket.

I’d be fine with Eric’s idea as long as the general tag cow option was only good for private land. The quickest way to ruin a decent LE area is to throw unlimited cow hunters in the mix.

 

[WanderWoman]

I have not had time to read thru this yet. But at a glance why don’t we put cows in general license in over objective LE areas? Along with instituting mandatory harvest reporting, when objective harvest number is met, close season….kinda like in the unlimited sheep area. Works for bighorns, should work on cow elk. Maybe that’s to easy and effective?

Are you meaning ‘cows valid on a general’ or the nuclear ‘cow only’ option?

So many LE areas already where cows are valid on a general for 6 months and you can shoot 3 of them with no improvement in harvest/population reduction.

 

[Badlandcat]

Except for the Custer we have cows and spikes on general license all ready in 799. Happy that a general is not good on the Custer. The last thing the Custer needs is more people looking for a cow or spike elk with a deer tag burning a hole in there back pocket.

Don't forget about the folks that come back in the spring and find those " winterkill" deadhead bulls.

 

[DFS]

Except for the Custer we have cows and spikes on general license all ready in 799. Happy that a general is not good on the Custer. The last thing the Custer needs is more people looking for a cow or spike elk with a deer tag burning a hole in there back pocket.

Great point but I don’t think it’s just for the Custer this can be applied for the whole state. It illustrates why elk and deer season can’t be concurrent.

I recently asked a landowner to hunt he said we have too many elk we don’t like the elk and no you can’t hunt. I don’t blame him one bit but it shows you landowners are more willing to put up with elk than hunters. Shortening seasons would help that. FWP is doing exactly opposite of what needs to happen if they want to put a beat down on elk populations. Landowners have the tools to kill elk it’s more of a neighbor problem at this point. Just like fixing fence some simply won’t do it.

 

[antlerradar]

Don't forget about the folks that come back in the spring and find those " winterkill" deadhead bulls.

I have found a few likely winter kills in SE Montana, but for the most part winter kill on elk is not an issue for elk in SE Montana. Most of those dead ones people find likely died of misplaced lead and razor blades. Could throw in a few lion kills and wounding by other bulls during the rut also.

 

[DFS]

Great point but I don’t think it’s just for the Custer this can be applied for the whole state. It illustrates why elk and deer season can’t be concurrent.

I recently asked a landowner to hunt he said we have too many elk we don’t like the elk and no you can’t hunt. I don’t blame him one bit but it shows you landowners are more willing to put up with elk than hunters. Shortening seasons would help that. FWP is doing exactly opposite of what needs to happen if they want to put a beat down on elk populations. Landowners have the tools to kill elk it’s more of a neighbor problem at this point. Just like fixing fence some simply won’t do it.

Long seasons create the refuge elk and place them right to where they will never get shot. Mind numbing fwp can’t wrap their pea sized brains around it. Moving bull and cow seasons apart would also help. Plenty of ways to think outside the box. I predict 30 more years of poor management for Montana. The stupidity is strong.

 

[rogerthat]

Long seasons create the refuge elk and place them right to where they will never get shot. Mind numbing fwp can’t wrap their pea sized brains around it. Moving bull and cow seasons apart would also help. Plenty of ways to think outside the box. I predict 30 more years of poor management for Montana. The stupidity is strong.

“My pappy was stupid. His pappy was stupid. I come from a long line of stupid. Now let’s go get that two point for thanksgiving dinner son”

- anonymous Montana hunter