Ten Bears
New member
Somebody give it a shot. Wedebate if shooting ranch game is hunting or not, but nobody has said what hunting is.
Define HUNTING
- Thread starter Ten Bears
- Start date
Moosie
Grand poopa
CAN I go first
I see hunting as 2 things..
1. going after something
I think the Persuit of anything whether with a bow a rifle or a medal detector is hunting. this doesn't matter if it's in Open area, A beach, or a pen the size of 3'x3'.
2. Getting something
This is the second part and the funnest, People that seek something usually say that it is only the Seeking that they enjoy... I, Personally , enjoy getting something.
As in hunting, If I wanted just to spend time in the woods, I'd bring a tent and Not a gun. Why cary a heavy object
Also, I up my chances every chance I get to be successfull. I look at topo's, I'll scout... And if it takes goingto a small enclosure.. So be it
OK, Your turn !!!!
(Edited by Moosie 3/4/03 4:16 PM and 24 seconds
)
I see hunting as 2 things..
1. going after something
I think the Persuit of anything whether with a bow a rifle or a medal detector is hunting. this doesn't matter if it's in Open area, A beach, or a pen the size of 3'x3'.
2. Getting something
This is the second part and the funnest, People that seek something usually say that it is only the Seeking that they enjoy... I, Personally , enjoy getting something.
As in hunting, If I wanted just to spend time in the woods, I'd bring a tent and Not a gun. Why cary a heavy object
Also, I up my chances every chance I get to be successfull. I look at topo's, I'll scout... And if it takes goingto a small enclosure.. So be it
OK, Your turn !!!!
(Edited by Moosie 3/4/03 4:16 PM and 24 seconds
To quote an old joke, Moosie, you stop hunting for something once you start finding it. I believe in the context used here, "Hunting" could be defined as the systematic search for a specific game animal with the intent of killing it.
In a broader sense, the associated "sport" that accomanpies the "hunting" has always baffled me. I see no sport in seeking an animal with the specific intent of killing it. The commaraderie found in a hunting camp is not unlike that found in a card game or a pool hall, a bowling alley, baseball diamond, soccer field, or anywhere else where good friends gather to enjoy a common acticty. There is nothing mystic or spiritual about hunting for an animal. In a matching of the intellect of man against the instinct of animal. Usually, animal wins. Which is as it should be.
So I suggest that there is something more basic about the act of hunting and killing that is satisfied by the pursuit and the act. Something that links us to the history of the species. Something that satisfies that part of each of us that is "of the earth". The need to provide or conquer or a combination of both.
It's been my experience that those who I've met who are the most committed to "hunting" are those with the most to prove to themselves, about themselves. Those, with the most basic instinct to satisfy. Perhaps those with the greatest doubt about who or what they are or where they come from, or perhaps where they are going. Possibly the proof that we, as animals, can still survive in a world where that animal part of us has been bred out over the centuries of "civilization".
Aren't you glad you asked?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-04-2003 17:20: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>
In a broader sense, the associated "sport" that accomanpies the "hunting" has always baffled me. I see no sport in seeking an animal with the specific intent of killing it. The commaraderie found in a hunting camp is not unlike that found in a card game or a pool hall, a bowling alley, baseball diamond, soccer field, or anywhere else where good friends gather to enjoy a common acticty. There is nothing mystic or spiritual about hunting for an animal. In a matching of the intellect of man against the instinct of animal. Usually, animal wins. Which is as it should be.
So I suggest that there is something more basic about the act of hunting and killing that is satisfied by the pursuit and the act. Something that links us to the history of the species. Something that satisfies that part of each of us that is "of the earth". The need to provide or conquer or a combination of both.
It's been my experience that those who I've met who are the most committed to "hunting" are those with the most to prove to themselves, about themselves. Those, with the most basic instinct to satisfy. Perhaps those with the greatest doubt about who or what they are or where they come from, or perhaps where they are going. Possibly the proof that we, as animals, can still survive in a world where that animal part of us has been bred out over the centuries of "civilization".
Aren't you glad you asked?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-04-2003 17:20: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>
Delw
Member
Yeah MeatHead I like that one...
Delw
Delw
Hunting to me means searching for something. Killing is different.
As for me,I differ a little from Moosie as i enjoy the thrill of the hunt, not the thrill of the kill. I have never killed an elk, I had many opportunities and have thumped a few (oh boy, should not have said that but i dont think it hurts them because sometimes they just stand there afterwards) I just enjoy being out there, and the "search" for a bull big enough to hang on the wall. Thats another reason i dont buy cow tags even if they are cheap.
Now the Bison thing i want to do before i croak, but drawing a tag is grim so if i could find a ranch large enough to have them in a somewhat natural setting , i think that puts a little "hunt" into it. Now i really dont know how much i could enjoy any hunt in a fence but i look at it also as grocery shopping. Would i mount it? No way. not fair chase so i would not be proud enough to hang it on the wall. Just my opinion, doesnt mean any other is wrong ,its just what you make of it.
That said, i agree with Danr55 that the hunt ends when you find the game after its found. Actually i think Danr55 pinned me with the paragraph about the act of proving to myself i can survive, and do what i set out to do by outwitting an animal. I feel sad for the animal after its dead so i pet it on the head and thank it for giving me its life for my quest, and nourishment in food. Kind of like Indians did i guess. Maybe i am just a big Puss
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-04-2003 19:58: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
As for me,I differ a little from Moosie as i enjoy the thrill of the hunt, not the thrill of the kill. I have never killed an elk, I had many opportunities and have thumped a few (oh boy, should not have said that but i dont think it hurts them because sometimes they just stand there afterwards) I just enjoy being out there, and the "search" for a bull big enough to hang on the wall. Thats another reason i dont buy cow tags even if they are cheap.
Now the Bison thing i want to do before i croak, but drawing a tag is grim so if i could find a ranch large enough to have them in a somewhat natural setting , i think that puts a little "hunt" into it. Now i really dont know how much i could enjoy any hunt in a fence but i look at it also as grocery shopping. Would i mount it? No way. not fair chase so i would not be proud enough to hang it on the wall. Just my opinion, doesnt mean any other is wrong ,its just what you make of it.
That said, i agree with Danr55 that the hunt ends when you find the game after its found. Actually i think Danr55 pinned me with the paragraph about the act of proving to myself i can survive, and do what i set out to do by outwitting an animal. I feel sad for the animal after its dead so i pet it on the head and thank it for giving me its life for my quest, and nourishment in food. Kind of like Indians did i guess. Maybe i am just a big Puss
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-04-2003 19:58: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
Moosie
Grand poopa
WOW Schmalts.. that's touching.. Usually I do this to an Amimal :
Evid. of sex is what they call it in Idaho...
OK OK .. that will have Washington hunter looking to get me
Evid. of sex is what they call it in Idaho...
OK OK .. that will have Washington hunter looking to get me
LOL !! O.k moosie, you got me. The real reason i want to go buff hunting is i know you more than you think!!!
There is big money in beastiality flicks. Stick with me bro, i'll make you a star and a rich man. Keep that urge under control for a few weeks before the hunt, i want a good healthy "money shot"
Hey, you should have been wearing your famous fag pants for that pic, its a buck!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-04-2003 20:47: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
There is big money in beastiality flicks. Stick with me bro, i'll make you a star and a rich man. Keep that urge under control for a few weeks before the hunt, i want a good healthy "money shot"
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-04-2003 20:47: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
No comment
Moosie
Grand poopa
COME on Washington hunter.. That's some of my best material to get a chuckle out of ya
You're a hard case to crack
Schmalts, With what I'm packing even a "money shot" isn't worth much
but we'll see what we can do
Danr.. you're right, usually I need to hunt before I hump !!
I know DS made a post awhile back on Stages of hunting... I can't remember all the stages but I still think I'm stuck in the Beginning of it. Twards the latter part you just hunt to go out and see things, I'm in the part that wants to be successful on my hunts
.. That being said, I've been on GREAT hunts and not gotten anything either, I don't have to get something to have fun by any means... But I'm not going to lie and Say I go out just for a good time, I could stay at home in a warm bed banging the ol' lady for that and sure as hell not get the Long hikes, the sore feet, the extreem cold then heat.... OK, MAybe I would
But hopefully you catch my point though all my BS
Schmalts, With what I'm packing even a "money shot" isn't worth much
Danr.. you're right, usually I need to hunt before I hump !!
I know DS made a post awhile back on Stages of hunting... I can't remember all the stages but I still think I'm stuck in the Beginning of it. Twards the latter part you just hunt to go out and see things, I'm in the part that wants to be successful on my hunts
I like dan's definition because of it's statement (my reading of it anyway) of hunting as a process, which hopefully end with an end product (dead animal). I to agree that there is a sense of proving one's self against nature. Technology makes this easier, but many people have to prove to themselves and thus use tools that make it harder.
However, I do disagree with the statement that there is nothing spiritual or mystic about hunting an animals. I'm not a devout religious person, but I do feel something spiritual/mystic about hunting. Sort of a connection with my evolutionary past if you will. So, I think hunting can be spiritual if that is what one wants to get out of it.
However, I do disagree with the statement that there is nothing spiritual or mystic about hunting an animals. I'm not a devout religious person, but I do feel something spiritual/mystic about hunting. Sort of a connection with my evolutionary past if you will. So, I think hunting can be spiritual if that is what one wants to get out of it.
Tom
New member
I like Moosie's, Meathead's, and 1-pointer's.
Here's mine:
Hunting is seeking food. That's the short version.
I like Jose Ortega's statement, One kills in order to have hunted, not hunt in order to kill.
The spiritual part is like 1-pointer said, hunting gets at the source of life, the cycle of life, we kill in order to live. Its food, its back to nature, hunting is at the tap root of life and connects us with our roots of life, hence, its got spiritual values.
We used to hunt to live, if you will, real hunting, now, we have sportsman's hunting more than subsistence or commercial hunting, but still have some of those too. We, as sportsman hunters, still get food, we still connect to roots, but we have contests, seasons, and most sportsman don't need hunting for their food, we just choose to get it that way, because of the values in real hunting from our past that still have value today. We also still have commercial hunting, at least here.
A meat processor that I use told me about an example. They got and butchered 7 Nilgai from south Texas, where they run wild for restaurants in the area. A guy with a 223 shot them all 7 in about 1/2 hour from a helicopter. He'd shoot one shot right in front of them, to get his bearings, then one right in the back of their head and down they would go. They are big antelope and very tasty I here. They can be hunted more sportsman like too, at www.kingranch.com for example.
I guess, the eskimos, etc. some people in Alaska are examples of subsistence hunters, i.e. real hunters. Anything goes, with a subsistence hunter, no rules, kill the son of a gun and bring him home to feed everyone.
So, there's a definition and a story.
Here's mine:
Hunting is seeking food. That's the short version.
I like Jose Ortega's statement, One kills in order to have hunted, not hunt in order to kill.
The spiritual part is like 1-pointer said, hunting gets at the source of life, the cycle of life, we kill in order to live. Its food, its back to nature, hunting is at the tap root of life and connects us with our roots of life, hence, its got spiritual values.
We used to hunt to live, if you will, real hunting, now, we have sportsman's hunting more than subsistence or commercial hunting, but still have some of those too. We, as sportsman hunters, still get food, we still connect to roots, but we have contests, seasons, and most sportsman don't need hunting for their food, we just choose to get it that way, because of the values in real hunting from our past that still have value today. We also still have commercial hunting, at least here.
A meat processor that I use told me about an example. They got and butchered 7 Nilgai from south Texas, where they run wild for restaurants in the area. A guy with a 223 shot them all 7 in about 1/2 hour from a helicopter. He'd shoot one shot right in front of them, to get his bearings, then one right in the back of their head and down they would go. They are big antelope and very tasty I here. They can be hunted more sportsman like too, at www.kingranch.com for example.
I guess, the eskimos, etc. some people in Alaska are examples of subsistence hunters, i.e. real hunters. Anything goes, with a subsistence hunter, no rules, kill the son of a gun and bring him home to feed everyone.
So, there's a definition and a story.
This is becoming very close to a discussion of the origins of man. In order to associate any spirituality to hunting, you are associating hunting with the source of life. If you happen to beMonodiestic, then you accept that diety as the source of life, making hunting just like drinking water. Something one did to survive. Not at all spiritual, but rather a chore to be done.
Tom, I have a serious problem with your definition according to Jose Ortega. One does not kill to have hunted. They are separate acts. I frequently hunt animals, but only rarely kill one any more. The intent is always there but the selection process has become refined. I guess his definition kind of puts the cart before the horse for me.
Tom, I have a serious problem with your definition according to Jose Ortega. One does not kill to have hunted. They are separate acts. I frequently hunt animals, but only rarely kill one any more. The intent is always there but the selection process has become refined. I guess his definition kind of puts the cart before the horse for me.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
According to PETA it's really simple. And I think I agree.
I have a small pee-pee, therefore I hunt.
I have a small pee-pee, therefore I hunt.
Dan- What if someone doesn't proscribe the origin of life to any diety? I agree with the argument regarding monodiests, to some degree. But, now that we don't have to hunt in order to survive, because of the grocery store, do you feel one could then consider hunting spritual?
Also, I think Ortega was a bit spot on with his description of hunting for you! He doesn't give a time frame from which the hunting and killing had to take place. So, IMO, even though your selection process is more refined, could the kill then define multiple hunts?
Also, I think Ortega was a bit spot on with his description of hunting for you! He doesn't give a time frame from which the hunting and killing had to take place. So, IMO, even though your selection process is more refined, could the kill then define multiple hunts?
Tom
New member
Lots of religions pray over food and drink. People get babtisted in water, its spiritual stuff. Here's a list of gods and goddesses of the hunt from a book by James A. Swan, Ph.D., he has a web page with some articles on hunting too.
That is spiritual. What is spiritual for you Danr, anything? What would be something spiritual, you said something above, "linked to the source of life", well food is, we get food while hunting, there's the link you mentioned, right?
Saint Hubert is on that list from a monotheist religion, there's probably others too. Hunting is more than survival, its a way to experience the meaning of the cycle of life, one creature dies, that another might live. 1_pointer, I agree, when a guy kills something he hunted, he becomes a hunter. After that, its multiple hunts, that's consistent with Jose Ortega's statement. Hunting without the intent to kill something, is better described as nature observation or something like that, not hunting. Having the intent to kill, means you will kill, not that you are thinking about it, which seems consistent with Danr too. You don't have to kill the first legal thing you see to be hunting, that idea, but you do have to intend to kill, Danr said that too.
That is spiritual. What is spiritual for you Danr, anything? What would be something spiritual, you said something above, "linked to the source of life", well food is, we get food while hunting, there's the link you mentioned, right?
Saint Hubert is on that list from a monotheist religion, there's probably others too. Hunting is more than survival, its a way to experience the meaning of the cycle of life, one creature dies, that another might live. 1_pointer, I agree, when a guy kills something he hunted, he becomes a hunter. After that, its multiple hunts, that's consistent with Jose Ortega's statement. Hunting without the intent to kill something, is better described as nature observation or something like that, not hunting. Having the intent to kill, means you will kill, not that you are thinking about it, which seems consistent with Danr too. You don't have to kill the first legal thing you see to be hunting, that idea, but you do have to intend to kill, Danr said that too.
dgibson
New member
Moosie...I believe you refer to this. The whole page has some good stuff on it, as a matter of fact.
The day that "hunting" becomes nothing more than the process of looking for an animal and killing it is the day I lay down the gun.
The day that "hunting" becomes nothing more than the process of looking for an animal and killing it is the day I lay down the gun.
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