Decline In Hunters Threatens How U.S. Pays For Conservation (NPR)

[shootbrownelk]

Yet the western states have no problem selling out their tags.

There are and always will be people with deeper pockets to make up for the less affluent.

 

[LaSportsman]

Sorry if I missed squirrels on page one! Read the thread in three sitting stars before I could reply.

That Louisiana fox squirrel was twice the meat of a cat squirrel (gray squirrel).

 

[Dougfirtree]

While I can agree with that to some degree, I think it is more the private leasing and lack of access to private lands, not the lack of public land, that is the issue. Private and public lands are not simply two sides of the same coin. Access to private land used to be easy. Now it is often all but impossible and then there is leasing of private on top of that.

The other, widely missed reason, is that, frankly, unless you are of a pretty far right political stripe, you simply are not welcome. Believe it.

Hunters have ostracized 1/2-2/3s of the nation's population right at the get go. This affects not just declines in hunting, but also participation in shooting competitions which are also mostly declining.

Ding ding ding! Many eastern states have vast swaths of public land, but either the pressure is high, or the hunting is really tough (or both). I live next to 3,000,000 acres of public land that is open for hunting. But only the most dedicated will stick with it because of the rough terrain and especially, the very low deer density/difficulty of hunting. You have to be a fanatic to really stick with deer hunting on public land in the Adirondacks.

Private lands have traditionally been the bread and butter for folks who want to put meat in the freezer. There are still lots of good private lands for hunting, but fewer and fewer hunters have access to them. The east could really learn something from western programs that offer incentives for landowners to open up. I wish we were seeing more of that here.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Probably not the way you want if you keep painting with such a broad brush. If we want to survive as hunters we need to build a big tent and check our non-relevant politics at the door, I don't care what someones stance is on immigration, abortion, or social security if they have a like mind interest in conservation and if conservation is the topic at hand.

Making someone with a Hillary sticker on their car feel unwelcome at a RMEF, DU, WTF event or at the local shooting range is about the worst thing you can do for the hunting community.

I agree.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

2. Another barrier to entry into hunting is the learning curve that can seem overwhelming. I think there is interest in hunting from people looking to get organic meat as well as people looking to do more outside but when they research into hunting they get overwhelmed. For people who grow up hunting like myself it can come easy but as we know it can also be overwhelming to apply in certain states for veteran hunters. Feels like you need a law degree to read regulations sometimes. Then there is learning how to use a weapon. Some of us were fortunate enough to have a Dad that taught us but I feel as though the percentage of people who have family members or close friends teaching them gun safety and related items is shrinking. One idea I have is to take some hard to draw tags that have higher populations and are considered “easier” hunts and have them set aside to only go to “first time hunters”. It would be once in a lifetime for residents of that state obviously but basically give a “first time hunter” an excellent experience to plant that seed and grow interest. Maybe include gun safety and other basic skills training earlier in the year as part of the tag. Seasoned hunters will have to be slightly selfless for the future of hunting IMO.

I think cow/doe hunts are great opportunities for this, I did a damage hunt in MT and because it was in such close proximity to the town that the Warden actually came out with me. It was a great experience, the warden pointed out a few things in the butchering process that I was doing wrong and showed me a few tricks. It was a great experience.

It would be interesting if first time, adult onset hunters could apply for damage/depredation hunts and be taken out by a warden/landowner/ etc in a situation where there was pretty much guaranteed success. I know a bunch of people who are really comfortable in the backcountry, but are intimidated by hunting because they have never seen an animal butchered first hand and don't want their first experience to be solo in the woods with their only knowledge gleaned from youtube. I think the elk hunt outside of boulder on rabbit mountain would be a great opportunity, you basically have to have your hand held by the CPAW to do the hunt anyway, why not use it as a recruiting tool.

 

[BWALKER77]

Isnt it natural that hunters are predominantly right leaning given animal rights activists and anti gun proponents are almost exclusively leftists?
And Randy's comments are spot on in regards to access.

 

[BrentD]

Isnt it natural that hunters are predominantly right leaning given animal rights activists and anti gun proponents are almost exclusively leftists?.

No. Not even close. But that bulk packaging and broad-brush painting certainly exists.

 

[noharleyyet]

My rifle range is where I was told in 08 that "I ain't doin' a G#@d#$n thing that N#@(%r says," while he fondled his AR.-Ben Lamb

....csb, right on script

White guy, 'bout yay tall, clinging to a bible in the other hand?

 

[Ben Lamb]

....csb, right on script

White guy, 'bout yay tall, clinging to a bible in the other hand?

No bible, especially with that potty mouth.

I love my range. It's a good mix of crazy and it's on public land. Lots of guys who have black rifles, and more than have an affinity for wood & walnut. Thanks to Obama, they even were able to do major upgrades due to the huge increase in membership when 44 was coming for all of our guns.

 

[noharleyyet]

Fair point Ben, he did create a unique false positive for 'gun' salesmanship, even got some sort of peace prize to boot.

 

[BWALKER77]

No. Not even close. But that bulk packaging and broad-brush painting certainly exists.

Are you saying its not a fact that the anti gun and animal rights movements are leftist in nature?

As it pertains to american politics one side wants to take your guns away/stop hunting and the other wants to destroy public lands and make hunting in the texas model. This is of course a generalized comment for the purpose of this conversation.

 

[BWALKER77]

One other relivant piece to this discussion is the fact that landowners are not only choosing to lease there lands and effectively blocking the public, they also advocate for lower populations of game animals. MT's elk managment plan is a good example of this. And it happens in other areas too.

 

[Kearnsie14]

Around my area most of the farm land is either hunted by friends/family or leased. I am finding there aren't as many hunters but the people that do hunt, hunt more often and harder.

This is a great observation. I'm new to the forum and thought I'd give an example to underscore your point. As background, I'm a long time whitetail hunter from OH where we have very little public land and what little there is gets overrun with hunters. I'm a CPA and I did about $5k of financial work for a friend with no money but that owns 300 acres (that may not be much land out west but in OH, that's alot of land). I knew he could never pay me $5k so I told him to keep his money and I'd settle instead for 1 weekend of whitetail hunting on his land. His response was that there was no way he could do that because his cousin was the only guy that hunted his land and he didn't want to make his cousin mad. Thankfully, I have other places to hunt so I'm not upset about it - just entertained at the notion that the guy wouldn't even give up one single weekend of hunting on his land to satisfy a $5k debt because it risked upsetting his cousin, who apparently had laid claim to exclusive hunting rights to a 300 acre piece of land for the entire 4 month whitetail season. That type of story is very common in Ohio and illustrates your point well - fewer guys hunting more often, harder, and more exclusively. Getting access to private land is everything here. When guys don't have it, they quit hunting.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Are you saying its not a fact that the anti gun and animal rights movements are leftist in nature?

As it pertains to american politics one side wants to take your guns away/stop hunting and the other wants to destroy public lands and make hunting in the texas model. This is of course a generalized comment for the purpose of this conversation.

I have to disagree because these issues are way to nuanced, and the gross oversimplification us v. them mentality that is exposed by Dems and Reps and in the media does not reflect reality.

I own guns, but given the reality we are living in am receptive for arguments against certain types of weapons and for more restrictive laws... does that make me pro or anti gun? I also love animals, I think factory farming is cruel and should be reformed even if it means increase in food prices. I also like having wolves around in the woods ... but I think all populations should be managed scientifically with hunting AND TRAPPING used as methods for this management. Where do these views put me, I have similar "non-conforming" views on most issues as I'm sure most people do.

I get that you are trying to say the NRA is conservative and PETA is liberal, but while the stance of the organizations may follow that they are composed of individuals with a variety of opinions and positions.

If you look at the stats 25% or democratic and 30% of leaning democratic households have guns and 57% of republican and 56% percent of leaning republicans own guns... which means there are lots of republicans who are probably "anti-gun" and lots of democrats that are "pro-gun"... "pro-gun" being a stupid way of describing it because everyone is probably pro guns to some degree and anti to another.

The point is why try to boil everything down and exclude others and instead say hey I get that we don't see eye to eye on AR-15s but we both want elk in that field, maybe for different reasons, and we both want to be able to hike that trail over there so why don't we work together. Sure that person might be your opponent on an issue like lion hunting, but if you worked together on a grant to get some open space designated or an easement on a trail, then down the road when there is a vote to close lion hunting that person might say "well I don't like trophy hunting, but Joe hunts lions and I think he is a good ethical guy so I'm going to vote to keep the season open.

 

[fwagner]

I'm not and I won't!

Seeing beyond yourself for the greater good requires a certain level of intelligence and objective reasoning.....not everyone has that, as you just demonstrated.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Fair point Ben, he did create a unique false positive for 'gun' salesmanship, even got some sort of peace prize to boot.

The Peace prize was for his support of never-ending war.

 

[bobbydean]

Ben Lamb please explain his support for never-ending war. Obama did jack shit. The Nobel prize was ridiculous. Tell me why he deserved it.

I actually like your posts and I am sure you will explain it to me. I have zero respect for Obama!

I hope I am assuming Obama, but my best guest!

 

[BWALKER77]

I have to disagree because these issues are way to nuanced, and the gross oversimplification us v. them mentality that is exposed by Dems and Reps and in the media does not reflect reality.

I own guns, but given the reality we are living in am receptive for arguments against certain types of weapons and for more restrictive laws... does that make me pro or anti gun? I also love animals, I think factory farming is cruel and should be reformed even if it means increase in food prices. I also like having wolves around in the woods ... but I think all populations should be managed scientifically with hunting AND TRAPPING used as methods for this management. Where do these views put me, I have similar "non-conforming" views on most issues as I'm sure most people do.

I get that you are trying to say the NRA is conservative and PETA is liberal, but while the stance of the organizations may follow that they are composed of individuals with a variety of opinions and positions.

If you look at the stats 25% or democratic and 30% of leaning democratic households have guns and 57% of republican and 56% percent of leaning republicans own guns... which means there are lots of republicans who are probably "anti-gun" and lots of democrats that are "pro-gun"... "pro-gun" being a stupid way of describing it because everyone is probably pro guns to some degree and anti to another.

The point is why try to boil everything down and exclude others and instead say hey I get that we don't see eye to eye on AR-15s but we both want elk in that field, maybe for different reasons, and we both want to be able to hike that trail over there so why don't we work together. Sure that person might be your opponent on an issue like lion hunting, but if you worked together on a grant to get some open space designated or an easement on a trail, then down the road when there is a vote to close lion hunting that person might say "well I don't like trophy hunting, but Joe hunts lions and I think he is a good ethical guy so I'm going to vote to keep the season open.

Sure, there is nuance, but what I posted is true. I woukd also argue prehaps its easier to deal with those on the right that want to ruin public land hunting vs dealing with those on the left that want to ruin hunting period.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Seeing beyond yourself for the greater good requires a certain level of intelligence and objective reasoning.....not everyone has that, as you just demonstrated.

Haha! Post of the year already in March!

 

[mr_steve]

I think cow/doe hunts are great opportunities for this, I did a damage hunt in MT and because it was in such close proximity to the town that the Warden actually came out with me. It was a great experience, the warden pointed out a few things in the butchering process that I was doing wrong and showed me a few tricks. It was a great experience.

It would be interesting if first time, adult onset hunters could apply for damage/depredation hunts and be taken out by a warden/landowner/ etc in a situation where there was pretty much guaranteed success. I know a bunch of people who are really comfortable in the backcountry, but are intimidated by hunting because they have never seen an animal butchered first hand and don't want their first experience to be solo in the woods with their only knowledge gleaned from youtube. I think the elk hunt outside of boulder on rabbit mountain would be a great opportunity, you basically have to have your hand held by the CPAW to do the hunt anyway, why not use it as a recruiting tool.

That does sound like a good opportunity for recruitment. What would the downside be? How do you go about propose ideas like that? At a high level I think having an area just for new hunters allows veteran hunters to encourage people to start hunting without the risk of "Giving up their spot".