Corner Crossing Defense Fund, Round 2- Civil Case

[Nicoli7153]

So a CH47 Chinook helicopter, as I understand can carry up to 33 passengers. How many drop camps? UTV's, ATV's? There is a helo service in MT has them so maybe new business opportunity? But any flight over the corners must include playing the Ride of the Valkyries (Apocalypse Now movie) on speakers.

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My thoughts exactly!!!!!

 

[BrokenChicken]

serious question for anyone who may have closely followed the case.

has defense brought up WY laws around Water rights / floating over. could there be some precedent that if i can float over private property in 1' of water (without touching riverbed) i am 100% legal.
WY landowners own the land on both sides and the riverbed, but they do not own the water. so when fishing in WY (floating N.Platte river) i cannot anchor in many spots, but i sure can float and fish.
defense should argue that going over Airspace of the corner without touching ground is same as already well established legal right to floating on water without touching bottom/riverbed.

please tell me i'm not the first to point this out?

 

[Nicoli7153]

serious question for anyone who may have closely followed the case.

has defense brought up WY laws around Water rights / floating over. could there be some precedent that if i can float over private property in 1' of water (without touching riverbed) i am 100% legal.
WY landowners own the land on both sides and the riverbed, but they do not own the water. so when fishing in WY (floating N.Platte river) i cannot anchor in many spots, but i sure can float and fish.
defense should argue that going over Airspace of the corner without touching ground is same as already well established legal right to floating on water without touching bottom/riverbed.

please tell me i'm not the first to point this out?

Great point!!! However rivers were historically used as travel ways prior to road and trail systems. Long standing precedent has preserved the right for travel and commerce in most states and any Federal waterways, your example falls in the Riparian Rights arena (I believe)

 

[Bam Bam]

No funds needed. Just cross the corners in mass and let him try to sue everyone...

That is a cutthroat plan, but I like the way this guy thinks. Just remind me to stay on his good side!

 

[SaskHunter]

So a CH47 Chinook helicopter, as I understand can carry up to 33 passengers. How many drop camps? UTV's, ATV's? There is a helo service in MT has them so maybe new business opportunity? But any flight over the corners must include playing the Ride of the Valkyries (Apocalypse Now movie) on speakers.

​

Can confirm, went on an Op in a Chinook loaded with 20 dudes in full battle rattle and a fully loaded Gator. It's a tight fit but it works!

Might be an expensive flight but I'll willing to go halfsies.

 

[Mallardsx2]

serious question for anyone who may have closely followed the case.

has defense brought up WY laws around Water rights / floating over. could there be some precedent that if i can float over private property in 1' of water (without touching riverbed) i am 100% legal.
WY landowners own the land on both sides and the riverbed, but they do not own the water. so when fishing in WY (floating N.Platte river) i cannot anchor in many spots, but i sure can float and fish.
defense should argue that going over Airspace of the corner without touching ground is same as already well established legal right to floating on water without touching bottom/riverbed.

please tell me i'm not the first to point this out?

You don't get that prize. Sorry.

 

[BrokenChicken]

Great point!!! However rivers were historically used as travel ways prior to road and trail systems. Long standing precedent has preserved the right for travel and commerce in most states and any Federal waterways, your example falls in the Riparian Rights arena (I believe)

thanks for explaining, and totally makes sense. i figured this must have been explored.

 

[manitou1]

I would like to see the claimed "damage" to the poor rancher.
Maybe his inability to monopolize his use of public land as if he owned it?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Corner crossers: Ranch owner broke federal access law - WyoFile

An attorney for four hunters found not guilty of trespassing has for the first time explicitly alleged the owner of the Elk Mountain Ranch violated a U.S. statute.

wyofile.com

 

[bullbugle307]

No funds needed. Just cross the corners in mass and let him try to sue everyone...

There is actually quite a few elk, deer and lopes on and around his property. Everyone should be flocking there this fall.

The four highlighted BLM parcels have a public road that passes through them. Use them to cross to the other adjacent public lands! Just figure out where Elk mountain, WY is and you should be able to figure it out.
View attachment 233330

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Eschelmans a jerk, but please recognize your spot burning regular folks here too. It's a little sad to see the places Ive killed deer, including my first buck taken years and years ago, just thrown out for all to see on a public forum.

 

[seeth07]

Eschelmans a jerk, but please recognize your spot burning regular folks here too. It's a little sad to see the places Ive killed deer, including my first buck taken years and years ago, just thrown out for all to see on a public forum.

The spot is burned regardless. We used our Antelope points last year for unit 50 tags and took 3 bucks along with 6 antelope does over the last three years all from that exact spot. In fact, one doe from exactly the blm parcel that you can corner cross from that I posted.

If anything, this leading to people going there and corner crossing up into elk mountain will drastically help you. There are a lot of animals that hold up on and right around that mountain that have been formally off limits. The pressure might move them down and around on thr parcels you don't have to corner cross. Unfortunately, with both the HMA properties now out of the program, a lot less ground to hunt.

 

[bullbugle307]

The spot is burned regardless. We used our Antelope points last year for unit 50 tags and took 3 bucks along with 6 antelope does over the last three years all from that exact spot. In fact, one doe from exactly the blm parcel that you can corner cross from that I posted.

If anything, this leading to people going there and corner crossing up into elk mountain will drastically help you. There are a lot of animals that hold up on and right around that mountain that have been formally off limits. The pressure might move them down and around on thr parcels you don't have to corner cross. Unfortunately, with both the HMA properties now out of the program, a lot less ground to hunt.

If you think that areas crawling with game now, you should've seen it when you could get pronghorn tags guaranteed on first choice, or before the deer herd had a massive die off in 08. Ive been hunting that area off and on for almost 20 years, probably won't be anymore. It's already gone way downhill in my lifetime.

On the plus side, it's still a cool area. There's paleo Indian kill sites there, and Big Nose George hid out in Rattlesnake Canyon. Unfortunately that didn't end well for the lawmen that tracked him there, but that's another story.

 

[seeth07]

If you think that areas crawling with game now, you should've seen it when you could get pronghorn tags guaranteed on first choice, or before the deer herd had a massive die off in 08. Ive been hunting that area off and on for almost 20 years, probably won't be anymore. It's already gone way downhill in my lifetime.

On the plus side, it's still a cool area. There's paleo Indian kill sites there, and Big Nose George hid out in Rattlesnake Canyon. Unfortunately that didn't end well for the lawmen that tracked him there, but that's another story.

I've only been hunting it for 5 years and you are certainly right that it was better there 5 years ago compared to last year. Idk if I'll ever go back

 

[BillDoe708]

Ranch owner: Corner-crossing damages could exceed $7M - WyoFile

In a disclosure statement, an attorney for Elk Mountain Ranch says four hunters diminished the value of the 22,000-acre property by between $3.1 million and $7.75 million when they passed through its airspace.

wyofile.com

Seeking big damages

 

[elkduds]

On the plus side, it's still a cool area. There's paleo Indian kill sites there, and Big Nose George hid out in Rattlesnake Canyon. Unfortunately that didn't end well for the lawmen that tracked him there, but that's another story.

Big Nose George: A Grisly Frontier Tale | WyoHistory.org

Train robber and confessed murderer Big Nose George Parrott was lynched in downtown Rawlins, Wyo. in 1881, after he tried to break out of jail. Later, local physician and future Wyoming Gov. Dr. John Osborne had a pair of shoes made from the outlaw’s skin.

www.wyohistory.org

 

[COEngineer]

I would like to see the claimed "damage" to the poor rancher.
Maybe his inability to monopolize his use of public land as if he owned it?

Prescient.

 

[Nicoli7153]

If he wants to sue someone,,,,, it should be his real estate broker and attorneys.

 

[TXLonghorn]

Big Nose George: A Grisly Frontier Tale | WyoHistory.org

Train robber and confessed murderer Big Nose George Parrott was lynched in downtown Rawlins, Wyo. in 1881, after he tried to break out of jail. Later, local physician and future Wyoming Gov. Dr. John Osborne had a pair of shoes made from the outlaw’s skin.

www.wyohistory.org

Wow! That story is both interesting and gruesome. Shoes made from a mans hide. Folks back then had some strange taste.

 

[TXLonghorn]

So a CH47 Chinook helicopter, as I understand can carry up to 33 passengers. How many drop camps? UTV's, ATV's? There is a helo service in MT has them so maybe new business opportunity? But any flight over the corners must include playing the Ride of the Valkyries (Apocalypse Now movie) on speakers.

​

This is really not a bad idea.

I had only a slight interest in this case until I listened to the guys talk about it on the meat eater podcast. Now Im real interested.
Its obvious the county attorney is in the pocket of the big land owners.
What interests me is the DA “air space” augment during the prosecution.

How high does that air space go?

I was thinking of a more commonly used aircraft than a chithook, and that could be rented locally, and used to insert on this Elk Mtn.

I’m sure there are a bird load of guys on this site intimately familiar with helicopter insertions and living outside for a couple of days. And live reasonably close to this place.

 

[EastTNHunter]

Wow! That story is both interesting and gruesome. Shoes made from a mans hide. Folks back then had some strange taste.

Macabre