CO - CPW Explains the new gun bills from their perspective

[Big Fin]

Not many gun owners agree with what the Colorado Legislature and Governor have done related to recently enacted firearms laws. Unfortunately, this puts Colorado Parks and Wildlife in a tough spot, leaving them to deal with impacts from actions that are out of their control.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife realizes that hunters have some legitimate concerns related to these changes. As such, they issued the following memo about how these bills will apply to hunting in Colorado and how they will enforce any applicable secitons.







If you want to read the PDF file from which these image files were extracted, here it is.

View attachment Colorado Hunting and Gun Facts.pdf

 

[Big Fin]

Feel free to share in other places where hunting boycotts are being talked about.

 

[Summitthunting]

If anything they should be boycotted for supporting the increase in landowner vouchers.

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=253993&highlight=Voucher

 

[Zach]

If anything they should be boycotted for supporting the increase in landowner vouchers.

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=253993&highlight=Voucher

+1!

 

[Summitthunting]

The CPW is quickly becoming a joke. I feel sorry for the DWM's in the trenches dealing with the politics of the organization these days. I'm sure it's not what they signed up for. I have no sympathy for any repercussions CPW or "the small town folks" feel from this bill or from the gun bills. I don't see those "small town folks" standing up for hunters right now. You reap what you sow (or don't).

+1!

 

[Pagosa]

Couldn't agree more about the CPW; between the landowner voucher program, joining the DOW and Parks together, auction tag hunts in Dec, price increases in non-resident cow tags, mis-forecasting the Bears Ears elk herd by 15 to 20k in 2007, etc. They are losing respect.
BigFin - Is the CPW using Onyourownadventures as a endorser? Just wondering why you continue to tell people how good hunting is in Colorado when all averages for rifle seasons point to a hunter killing an elk every 5 years. I'm just curious. I would venture to guess Utah, Montana, and Wyoming have higher successes in general season and draw hunts even with different regions being spike only in UT. I would take Montana hands down to Colorado with a 3 month combined archery and rifle season. The main shortcoming with Colorado is the short seasons, which makes it tough to pattern a bull before the season ends or he is bumped onto private land.
I am glad the CPW issued this press release, and I hope we have a better mid-term election. Preston

 

[Big Fin]

BigFin - Is the CPW using Onyourownadventures as a endorser? Just wondering why you continue to tell people how good hunting is in Colorado when all averages for rifle seasons point to a hunter killing an elk every 5 years. I'm just curious. I would venture to guess Utah, Montana, and Wyoming have higher successes in general season and draw hunts even with different regions being spike only in UT. I would take Montana hands down to Colorado with a 3 month combined archery and rifle season. The main shortcoming with Colorado is the short seasons, which makes it tough to pattern a bull before the season ends or he is bumped onto private land.

I have never kept it any secret that we were one of the shows CDOW/CPW worked with for promotion of their non-resident hunting opportunities. Our deal with CPW ended with the deer hunt we did last year. We do not have a contract to do any promo work with them this year.

Does that change my mind about the fun elk hunting I have in Colorado? Nope.

I am going on an OTC elk hunt again this year, with no involvement from CPW. I have that much fun doing it. And, I want other people to understand how much opportunity exists and the fact that they will kill an elk if they get after it, maybe invest a couple years learning an area, and even with the number of hunters, the hunt is worth the price and time it takes.

I hunt every western state for elk. In the elk hunter's dream world, where tag availability and cost are not an issue, given me a tag in AZ, central MT, NM, and NV every year. Have never hunted UT, so I can't opine on that one. That dream world scenario is a lot different than CO OTC, in most all respects.

In the scope of what I deal with, I am trying to show options for hunters who don't need/want elaborate point schemes, want to go every year, want to know when they will get to go, have tighter budgets, and have lots of public land to hunt. That is why CO OTC elk is so appealing to many, including me.

I understand your comments of the values you see in other states with different seasons structures. Just a few problems with what you point out in some of those states - getting a tag in Utah and Wyoming. Yeah, they have higher success rates, but they cost a lot more money and require a lot more time and investment in licenses and points to get a tag. Not really talking equals between these two states and CO. I would check your stats about the UT general tags having success rates above CO.

Montana bull elk success rates on the general rifle tags would be comparable to the OTC units I often talk about in CO. Usually in the mid-teens in MT general units, higher in limited units.

I would take MT general over CO OTC, also, given that I live here and I like to archery hunt elk. Cost and tag availability for me is heavily weighted to MT in that scenario. If I was a travelling non-resident I would have to look at the price difference. If I was not an archery hunter, I would look at MT being a far greater archery elk hunt, compared to the rifle elk hunts.

Hope that answers your question. I have been hunting Colorado for many different species, since 2003. I think CO is a very good option for many species, not just the OTC elk hunts I talk about.

I have drawn deer tags in CO units that have taken one to two points that were as good of hunts as I have had in supposed "top units" in other states. CO offers the best mix of deer quality and opportunity of any state I hunt.

They also offer the greatest elk opportunity of any state I hunt, even if quality is not superb. I bet most guys who have never shot a bull would be happy with a four-point bull, overjoyed with a five point, and ecstatic with a six point. All of those are possible in Colorado OTC hunts, without years of time and money invested in elaborate point schemes. Our OTC elk episodes are directed at those same guys I speak of.

I suspect you will see me hunting CO OTC for the rest of my elk hunting years, with one exception. I have CO 17 elk points. In the coming years I will be trying to use them for a limited entry tag, and following that will be back in the OTC hunts.

This year, I went so far as to apply for another PP, and second choice being a unit with left over cow tags last year, in hopes I will get one this year. A cow tag would be a great tag to go with an OTC bull tag. These hunts are not only fun, but make for good hunts in the idea of our TV show. We try to have four to five OTC or easy-to-draw hunts in the show, rather than all premium hunts that take years to draw.

Hope that answers your question. I understand what you are saying about some other states and hope I have made a case for why I promote CO OTC elk hunts and will continue to do so, even without an promo agreement with CPW.

And none of that changes my opinion that boycotting Colorado over the gun issues is a short-sighted, and bad, idea. Doing so is a classic "feel good" point that does nothing to hurt those doing the stupid things and only serves to hurt those who I think are good folks.

And none of that changes my feeling that the new CO landowner tag legislation is a bad idea. Oak mentioned a ton of reasons why that is bad for the self-guided hunter, and I agree with all of them.

 

[jlmatthew]

Our deal with CPW ended with the deer hunt we did last year. We do not have a contract to do any promo work with them this year.

Thank God for that. It killed me seeing the CPW as a sponsor, especially now with the voucher issue and the Dir Rick Cables pushing it

 

[Big Fin]

Thank God for that. It killed me seeing the CPW as a sponsor, especially now with the voucher issue and the Dir Rick Cables pushing it

I am talking to two other western states about similar promotion programs. A lot of states have some cool easy-to-draw, left over, and OTC tags that we hunt on. They see our hunting on those tags as a good way to promote the opportunities in those states.

If we do work with them, I am sure I will get frowns from some, same as happened when we started promoting the CO OTC elk tags. No matter where we go, what we hunt, or who we work with on promo, we seem to end up stepping in to someone's "overlooked secret" spot or opportunity. If I keep doing the public land gig, I will probably tick off most every hunter in the west, before I am through.

States see our show, message, and website as teaching tools that reach a lot of non-resident hunters; their customers. They don't need to sell very many additional non-resident licenses for it to pay off (I need to raise my prices). It helps us, and it helps them.

I would gladly do more work for CPW in the future. The folks I have dealt with are some of the best agency people I have met while doing this show. CO state government has some internal policy about how long they work with the same groups on the same projects, reasons for which I understand.

To their credit, CPW found cooperators in the tourism industry that allowed them to heavily leverage the marketing dollars they are spending. They have brought some people in from private industry who are smart thinkers and it shows in how that part of their agency operates. I am sure the return on the investment they made in promotion has more than paid for itself in the form of non-resident licenses sold.

If CPW ever asks us back, we will be there. Don't hate me for it, JL.

 

[Pagosa]

BigFin - Thanks for answering my question. I wasn't aware that you had previously did promo's for the CPW. I understand your reasoning for taking on the opportunity to market for the CPW, money and increase your business line. I do have a problem with state agency's taking revenue from sportsmen and doing advertising campaigns and top heavy agencies. Just my personal issue with the program.

I do understand that states have some real budget concerns and need to market their programs. But millions of dollars are wasted on pet projects across the west to study black-tail prairie dogs, raptors, bats, wolves, and other non-game animals. However, there is nothing I can do to change the program except vote in 2014, and send emails that get no responses to our elected and non-elected officials. Any govt. agency that has a privately appointed board by a Governor is doomed to be disfunctional.

Back to hunting, I sent in my $850 again to the CPW for tags in 2013 or points for next year. So I too will be hunting and supporting the dis-function. I work out of state mostly so I can live anywhere, but I would be more in favor of hunting a state like Montana where I can bowhunt for elk, chase whitetails along the Musselshell, or hunt Thanksgiving week when I do have off work; instead of taking off time in the middle of October to hunt elk for 5 days with 150,000 of my friends. You guys have your own political hot-bed issues in MT too.

 

[Oak]

I do understand that states have some real budget concerns and need to market their programs. But millions of dollars are wasted on pet projects across the west to study black-tail prairie dogs, raptors, bats, wolves, and other non-game animals.

Wasted? It's Colorado Parks and Wildlife, not Colorado Parks and Game and Fish That People Hunt. They have a responsibility to manage all wildlife in the state. And most research money spent on non-game fish and animals comes from sources other than license dollars.

Now I do think that the "non-consumptive" (I hate that term) users should be sharing in the costs of managing our wildlife. Help figure out that problem.