Case Against R3

[Northwoods Labs]

Haven't found this article posted here yet.........interesting and the first time I have ever read an article from hunting media arguing against R3.

I have to say, with how crowded the woods, waters, and campgrounds have been this past year....I am tending to agree with this.

Matt Rinella also wrote the article with some data and evidence (not just an opinion). I wonder if we have really lost as many hunters as some make it out to be?

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/b..._DVT-OTGyRXyLL3q1P8t98pM93d5ZIFVMVidLh2WZVOCY

 

[Deleted member 28227]

MeatEater Rebuttal

“Don’t be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today.” - El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X) If you mention the name, “MeatEater,” to a hunter, they’ll know exactly who you’re talking about...

www.huntersofcolor.com

I read this yesterday, pretty fair rebuke IMHO.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

There are barriers to entry for many....I think the rebuttal is trying to make a racial issues about something that isn't (or certainly wasn't at all even intended in the original article)

The fact is, there is only so much pressure our lakes and public lands can take...what number is the tipping point? Our lakes in northern Wisconsin and Minnesota were literally piss pounded this winter. Matt asks how may more hunters do you want at your spot....a better question might be how many more hunters/anglers can the resource take before collapse?

 

[TheGreek]

MeatEater Misses the Point in Its “Case Against Hunter Recruitment” Story

MeatEater.com recently criticized efforts to recruit new hunters, essentially arguing that...hunters are ruining hunting? Give us a break.

www.outdoorlife.com

Here's another response worth reading.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Matt Rinella also wrote the article with some data and evidence (not just an opinion). I wonder if we have really lost as many hunters as some make it out to be?

Today I hold a AK License, CO License, NM License, UT License, VT License, MA License, and applied in WY and MT so maybe by the end of the year I will have licenses there as well. So 8 of the USWFS licenses for 2021 might be me.

Prior to what 2015? a lot of states didn't require you to buy a license to participate in the draw, prior to 2000? How prevalent was out of state hunting? In the 80s AK was selling 5,000 NR licenses now they are selling 10,000 NR.

In the early 1990s, boomers were in their 40s they hard more discretionary income and those really into hunting start "consuming" more opportunity and applying in multiple states.

The uptick in the orange line starts almost exactly when western states started to implement their points systems for the draw.

 

[Gellar]

Hunters today are more than just casual hunters. They are willing to apply in 3-4 states and actually hunt in 2-3 states. With the inter webs finding information on units, draws, stats, diy or guided trips is easier then ever. And with social media it leads people to believe you have to hunt multiple species across multiple states to be a true hunter.

 

[Gellar]

Sorry Matt, I certified 40 new hunters at a hunters Ed field day today.

 

[BuzzH]

There are barriers to entry for many....I think the rebuttal is trying to make a racial issues about something that isn't (or certainly wasn't at all even intended in the original article)

The fact is, there is only so much pressure our lakes and public lands can take...what number is the tipping point? Our lakes in northern Wisconsin and Minnesota were literally piss pounded this winter. Matt asks how may more hunters do you want at your spot....a better question might be how many more hunters/anglers can the resource take before collapse?

This is what I think too.

IMO, I think R3 has worked way too well...and I also believe we sort of got the cart squarely in front of the horse.

It would have made more sense to look at the actual amount of opportunity there was, accessible land to hunt, all that stuff before implementing R3. With the huge uptick in NR applications all through the West, its pretty apparent the pressure relief valve on the success of R3 is elk, deer, pronghorn in the West.

I think it makes sense if the various organizations and states wanting to continue to pump R3, they better start investing in places for all these new hunters to hunt. The West isn't going to take much more and easier opportunities are drying up or in many cases no longer exist. Pronghorn in WY for a perfect example...when I moved here in 2000, there were lots of units I could walk into walmart and buy a tag in the middle of the season, the day before I wanted to go. That ship sailed. Many areas used to be available on second choice tags, now take 1-4 points to draw first choice.

I would like to see States in the midwest, south and east start doing things to accommodate all these new R3 hunters in their states. Also, I don't see as much R3 work in regard to small game and bird hunting...its mostly big-game oriented.

I don't think R3 was implemented with the available resource in mind, and that was a huge mistake.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Hunting is fantastic. I see someone who shows interest and I want to share the wealth by giving them a leg up on where to go and what to do. No desire to keep the pie to myself.

What really held me back for a long time from being more generous is I wasn’t proficient enough to have an overabundance of productive spots to hunt. The little I knew I was reluctant to share.

By now, I have 5-10 times more deer and turkey spots than I will ever hunt in a season. It’s easier to take a newbie out and flatten their learning curve by setting them up somewhere that they’ll have some fun and hopefully catch the bug.

Other places and other species though, well...if the competition is stiff I’m more reluctant to intentionally compound crowding and degrade everyone’s experience.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I would like to see States in the midwest, south and east start doing things to accommodate all these new R3 hunters in their states. Also, I don't see as much R3 work in regard to small game and bird hunting...its mostly big-game oriented.

I don't think R3 was implemented with the available resource in mind, and that was a huge mistake.

Definitely would like to see a more targeted approach of R3 towards underutilized areas and species. Then it’s not so much of a win-lose proposition.

 

[rwc101]

I follow Hunters of Color and appreciate how they're not focused on glory tags. Need more of that than flat brimmers YouTubeing their monster bull hunt.

 

[stevejfarms]

When I was a kid growing up hunting fencerows in southeast Missouri (10-12 yrs
old toting my double barreled 410) I reveled in taking any game. The largely black farm workers had stripped it all clean, by hunting to feed their families. When the majority of the black population moved north to find work in industry away from the agrarian south they lost their rural roots. It is troubling to me to take the blame just because I’m white.

 

[D_Walt]

To many guys getting their ladies involved! They’re taking all our tags! Just kidding...sort of. Fact of life - more Western hunters, game populations not going to increase = Tags will get tougher to come by. The cheese is moving, hunt it down (or something like that). Still a heck of a lot of opportunities if you’re not dead set on a glory tag. I think many of us will have to adjust our mindset of expecting multiple out of state hunts per year in the future. But as I write this I’m wondering how I’m going to juggle all the out of state tags I expect to pull between myself, my wife and two kids in 2021.
We as hunters will deal with all of the changes in tag numbers, % NR allocation, etc. and hunting will not go away but it might change from the way we know it today. I will continue to bring on new hunters in my home state and out of state at every opportunity. When/if I get to old to hunt anymore I damn sure would like to know there are some hunters out there chasing critters because I helped light the fire in their soul. I understand Matt Rinella’s concerns in the article but the tone of it read like a bunch of whiny bs to me.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

This is what I think too.

IMO, I think R3 has worked way too well...and I also believe we sort of got the cart squarely in front of the horse.

It would have made more sense to look at the actual amount of opportunity there was, accessible land to hunt, all that stuff before implementing R3. With the huge uptick in NR applications all through the West, its pretty apparent the pressure relief valve on the success of R3 is elk, deer, pronghorn in the West.

I think it makes sense if the various organizations and states wanting to continue to pump R3, they better start investing in places for all these new hunters to hunt. The West isn't going to take much more and easier opportunities are drying up or in many cases no longer exist. Pronghorn in WY for a perfect example...when I moved here in 2000, there were lots of units I could walk into walmart and buy a tag in the middle of the season, the day before I wanted to go. That ship sailed. Many areas used to be available on second choice tags, now take 1-4 points to draw first choice.

I would like to see States in the midwest, south and east start doing things to accommodate all these new R3 hunters in their states. Also, I don't see as much R3 work in regard to small game and bird hunting...its mostly big-game oriented.

I don't think R3 was implemented with the available resource in mind, and that was a huge mistake.

I don’t see only 45-70 year old white men voting in favor of conservation as a great long term strategy.

I get what Matt’s saying, I don’t disagree you (mostly), but read Lydia’s response over your coffee tomorrow and mull it over a bit.

 

[MThuntr]

MeatEater Rebuttal

“Don’t be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today.” - El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X) If you mention the name, “MeatEater,” to a hunter, they’ll know exactly who you’re talking about...

www.huntersofcolor.com

I read this yesterday, pretty fair rebuke IMHO.

That was a pretty big stretch turning R3 into a racial argument.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That was a pretty big stretch turning R3 into a racial argument.

How is it a stretch at all it’s literally a opinion piece from a R3 group saying, why are you undermining us, you have a massive platform, think about what you publish.

I agree it’s not important that we try and recruit a bunch of people purely to replace the aging boomers. It is important that we broaden the community of hunters. We don’t need to sell hunting to people that are likely already on board with it, we do need to reach out to those that aren’t.

If you can’t understand the powerful optics of a black female CPW commissioner telling a PETA representative that in fact people do eat mt lions and that she had eaten one... (This actually happened) I don’t know what to tell you.

I think both Matt and Lydia make good points and neither argument negates the other.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

Buzz hit the nail on the head. Maximum pressure on a limited resource isn't something to strive for. The term "shitshow " comes up all too often in hunt reports anymore. Who wants to be part of that when you know how it used to be?

 

[OverlordBear]

I support Matt Rinella more than Steve Rinella on this issue 100%. If you want R3 then you need more public land and it needs to be all over the country not just out west.

 

[F250]

Pretty tired of hearing every single issue becoming a race argument ... "with liberty and justice for all".

 

[Pucky Freak]

That was a pretty big stretch turning R3 into a racial argument.

As the rebuttal points out, Matt was very likely not being intentionally prejudiced against minorities. However, he closes his article with, “Let friends and family recruit the next generation of hunters. That model has worked since the beginning of time.”

There is no way I can get on board with a strategy like that, because it basically means “keep hunting white and male.” It is a strategy that has “worked” to achieve that goal for a long time.

If we as hunters hope to perpetuate a public land hunting heritage, maybe we don’t need sheer numbers, but instead we need a more representative cross-section of America in respect to gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

When minority communities and families have hunters among them, my hope is that this will broaden the tent of conservation advocacy. As white males continually shrink as a total % of our country’s population, we really can’t expect everyone else to prop up what is perceived as a “white male” activity.