Block Management (SUCKS)in MT

[D4570]

Public lands in side Block Management areas Good or bad? We recently were hunting along the Marias River, looking for state trust lands and BLM lands (public land). We kept coming a cross sign in boxes for BMA’s, some were just that you sign in and hunt. No big deal “BUT” you don’t need permission to hunt public lands, and the owner of the land in the BMA gets $10.00 per hunter to let us hunt! On the back of the maps of the BMA it states”BMA restrictions do not apply to ‘legally’ accessible public lands”. That means I don’t NEED to sign in and let them get $10.00 for me hunting public lands! Some of the BMA’s you needed to make reservations 24 hours in advance “But” not to hunt state or BLM land. We were asked if we sign in on many occasions, we said NO then we were told in a very firm manner that we need to follow the BMA requirements if we wanted to keep using it. They would stop just short of kicking us off; remember we were on ‘legally accessed federal land’. Were they put up there sign in boxes were on the privet lands (you would need a surveyor to get it any closer). I think that they were deliberately trying to “DUPE” Jo public in to signing and getting there $10.00! I talked with the FWP today and they were “OK” with this as long as we were ON federal lands and they ‘DID NOT “ask us to leave???????? Is this right?? As all our financial recourses are getting stretched to the limits here is a blatant example of waste!!! I felt intimidated and gut shot to hear the FWP side with the BMA owners to try to pad there use numbers and to PAY them for it!!!!!!!! I have never been an advocate of the block management program, but this should infuriate any hunter/tax payer in the state! This program is to expire soon and I say let it die !!!!!!

 

[Moosie]

Without the BMA you wouldn't even have access though to that land, right ? So this might not be the best solution, but it at least gives you access ?

 

[Nemont]

D4570,
I think you need to chill and think a little. The block management programs has been a success in a lot of areas. A lot of private land would not be accessible to hunters if is wasn't for Block Management.

I don't know why you are referring to wasting our tax dollars. The program is funded nearly 100% by non resident hunt fees and not with any of our tax dollars. We only pay $2 per hunter for access enhancement. Go read the statute that governs the Block Management Program.

If you legally accessed federal land then fine you can hunt there. In many cases you must cross private deeded land that doesn't have historic public right of way to get to federal lands.

I don't know of another program that has attempted to gain access for hunters that has been as successful as Block Management. If you have a hard on with the $10 just hunt the vast areas of BLM and State lands this state has been blessed with but you are throwing the baby out with the bath water on the Block Management program.

Nemont

 

[D4570]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!! We accessed all the public land on public roads "LEGALLY"
We didn't NEED there permission to be there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[D4570]

Lets See $2.00 per hunter and they get $10.00 per hunter HMMMMMM is that all funded by our fees?? I just meant the part that is wasted on places like this we could spend else were!!!

 

[Nemont]

You are wrong the legislation ear marks money soley for the Block Management Program and it can't be spent elsewhere.

Think about it you pay $2 for the entire year, regardless of how many time you access a BMA. Where do you think the rest of the money comes from? It comes from non resident hunters paying a for hunting access.

The Block Managemnt is a success, sorry you had one experience but the majority of hunters appreciate the program. You need to do a little reading before ranting because you don't have a clue how it is funded or even what a Landowners contract says regarding reimbursement.

I don't have an issue with you accessing federal lands and not signing the BMA permission slip but you are wrong on the overall program.

Nemont

Hunting Access Work Continues To Make Headway
For the 2004 hunting season, hunters in Montana will have access to over 8.5 million acres of land statewide through the Block Management Program administered by Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks. The program assists landowners in managing hunting activities and provides hunters with free public hunting access to private and isolated public land.

Hunters interested in learning more about lands enrolled in FWP's Block Management Program should contact the regional FWP office in the area where they plan to hunt. Each region publishes a Hunting Access Guide that provides detailed information on lands in the program in that region and on other regional hunting access options.

A regional FWP office provides Hunting Access Guides and Block Management information only for that particular region, so hunters get the latest information and guidelines that apply specifically to the area they plan to hunt.

Hunters may also want to investigate the hunting pages on the FWP web site at for hunting-access tips.

The Hunting Access Enhancement Fee, a one-time annual fee of $2 for residents and $10 for nonresidents, goes to fund Block Management and other FWP programs that maintain and expand hunters’ access to private and PUBLIC lands. Hunters pay the fee when they purchase their first hunting license of the season.

 

[Nemont]

Did you take the time to fill out this form?

Access Complaint form

Access Montana
Access Montana was created to improve access to state and federal lands and to help reduce the conflicts that arise when sportsmen utilize public lands. Program funding is used for agreements that provide access corridors to public lands, land owner incentives like fencing, cattle guards, and water crossings on access routes, signing to indicate public/private land boundaries, and increased patrolling where appropriate. FWP relies on a cooperative approach that considers the needs of landowners, sportsmen, and land managers to resolve conflicts over access to state and federal lands.

It is pretty easy to bitch and whine on a bulletin board but if you don't get satisfaction from the local FWP guys and gals then go over their head.

Nemont

A link to a story which spells out the Block Management program and it's impact upon hunting acces and the support the program enjoys from hunters, landowners and the Fish&Game Dept.

 

[D4570]

Yes I did fill out a public land access-problem identification form!!This is not the first time I've had complaints! Over all I think the program is very useful and many people I know and hunt with use the program. I just see a lot of abuse and every one side steps it saying " It's better then nothing" I'm all for a good program like this I just hate to see wast!! I don't use it and hate when people think I should pay for it and shut up!!! If you don't think some tax dollars are spent on this thats your view I think it's bankrolled heavily by the state,witch mean my taxes!!

 

[Nemont]

D4570,

It isn't just my "view" that tax dollars aren't spent on the block management programs. It isn't funded by tax dollars, it cannot be. Go read the statute and enabling legislation. Also read the fiscal notes that were written prior to the bill authorizing the program. They specifically state no tax money can be used to fund the program. It is,was and always will be funded by hunters. FWP's budget is not tax dollars for that matter, Their budget is funded 100% by hunters dollars as well.

Tell me where I said you should shut up. I said you should think. If you polled hunters I bet you would find nearly 80% of them support the block management program.

Is everything perfect?, no, read the article I have attached. Some landowners have gotten out of the program because they were overrun by hunters. Does that mean that we should wholesale end a program that has been successful in many other instances?

I am having a difficult time following your logic here: You orginally posted

I have never been an advocate of the block management program, but this should infuriate any hunter/tax payer in the state! This program is to expire soon and I say let it die !!!!!!

And then in your last post you posted:

Over all I think the program is very useful and many people I know and hunt with use the program.

So your logic is since a land owner would have gotten an extra $10 for you to hunt that day the program should be allowed to sunset. Screw the people you know who hunt and use the program. But it is over all a useful program.

So does that mean you feel strongly both ways? If this were the presidential elections that would be called a flip/flop.

Nemont

P.S.

There is no charge to hunt on block management lands (referred to as Block Management Areas or BMAs). Program funding comes from the sale of various licenses, including the resident and nonresident hunting access enhancement fee, nonresident upland gamebird licenses and nonresident variable-priced, outfitter-sponsored combination deer/elk licenses.

Also if you review the Montana Legislative Audit finding you will see exactly where the money comes from. Legislative Audit Report On Block Management Program The only additional funds are Pittman-Robertson funds which the Dept. of FWP amended their budget and put into the BMA program.

[ 11-03-2004, 16:27: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[D4570]

I don't think I'm getting my point across. Lots of people like the program (I don't) and it does take a lot of presher off our public lands and thats good. What I was getting at is "I" don't like paying twice for some thing. I felt like the sign in boxes were deliberately placed to confuse and "DUPE" the unwary hunter in to using the program when they did not have to.If all you think this program needs to be reinstated you "BETTER" start writing your congressman or We will all lose

 

[Nemont]

Why would I write to my congressman?

Wouldn't I write to my State representative?

How on Earth are you being made to pay twice? or even "Duped" into paying once? I don't think you understand much about the program if you think you are paying twice. You pay a $2 access enhancement fee, that is it. Doesn't matter if you signed in a 100 times. Also every contract out there has a maximum reimbursement amount in it.

4570 can you explain why you would oppose block management? Unless you are an outfitter or your family is can you give even one good reason why the "average" hunter would oppose such a program? I can't think of any.

Nemont

 

[The Hedgehog]

Nemont, don't waste your time with details or facts. It's rambling morons like this that make it $*)Q!#@$ miserable to attend public FWP meetings.

 

[BuzzH]

I got a great solution for D4570, if you dont like the program...dont use it. Let the hunters that appreciate the program utilize it.

Pretty simple approach that even a moron should be able to figure out...

 

[Nemont]

Greenhorn and Buzz,

You are right I should know better then to argue but for the life of me I can't figure out what his gripe is.

He can't even give me a good reason to oppose the BMA program. I think it is a case of him wanting to hear himself talk because he is the only one who will listen to what he has to say.

Nemont

 

[D4570]

I don't necessarily oppose the program. I oppose the wast! And I don't use the program!! I've had enough poor experience's with it I avoid it like the plague I'm glad some one like you are looking out for the average hunter they need some kind of a leader, seeing how they cant lead them selves???
All this dissection should lead to more hunters getting involved. Thats a good Thing any opinion is better then NO opinion! Thanks

 

[Nemont]

I hope by your spelling you are not a product of any Montana school. If you are native you are embarrassing your teachers.

I have never been an advocate of the block management program, but this should infuriate any hunter/tax payer in the state! This program is to expire soon and I say let it die

If all you think this program needs to be reinstated you "BETTER" start writing your congressman or We will all lose

I don't necessarily oppose the program. I oppose the wast

4570Kerry, do you have any lucid opinions on Block Management? You want it to die but don't oppose it?

I have no idea what you mean by this:

All this dissection should lead to more hunters getting involved

dissection
Definition: \Dis*sec"tion\, n.
1. The act of dissecting: scietific sudy by making incisions on plants or animals ie dissection of the human body during an autopsy.

4570 if you do any dissection of any hunters you will be in some big time trouble.

Nemont

 

[Tom]

I guess you could lobby that they get less if you just go there, and more if you shoot something there. Distinguish between just travelling and actually getting something, which is more valueable.

 

[D4570]

Well I cant spell! You did bring up some very good points, and some I didn't think of . I still don't use the program but ti is very apparent that some (many) do. I hope you can generate enough support to keep it around. PS whats your opinion on the new ruling on the bidding proses on state trust land?

 

[Bambistew]

D4570, I think I understand what your pissed about... the "rancher/owner" is putting sign in sheets on public land in hopes of makeing a "huge" profit from the unsuspecting moron that doesn't even know weather he's on public or private land... lets just say that you sign in 15 times to hunt one piece of property... Your name and date are on the sign in sheet. The property owner gets paid for eacg hunter for each day. So even if you were stupid enough to sign in 15 times the property owner would still only get paid for one sign in time. They get paid per hunter not per sign in... If I remember right they only get paid for 3 hunting days per hunter as well, I'm not sure if thats per season or week or what I dont' remember. so if you were stupid enough to sign in 100 times in 3 days the owner would still only get $30 of my non-resident funds to pay for your hunting... I can't for the life of me see what the problem is. When I used to live in MT we used to hunt a bunch of block management. Lots a game if you get off the road, just like public land. Personally I think it was one of the best things that fish and game has EVER done to enhance hunting in MT!!!