Big Buck Pic

[mtmiller]

I have known Eli for many, many years...i know his Dad, his Mom, his sister, and his wife and baby boy and they are a good family.

Get over yourself folks--it isn't a lot of money for what he has to do for the money.

I have no issue with Eli. Don't know him, but other here that I respect, do have good things to say about him. No issue.

Yes and the money that that "fat old Dude" gave up to hunt that trophy animal now goes 100% back on that ground to help keep those trophies here in Arizona. The money that guy spent will help generations of hunters because now our game and fish, the AAF and a few other groups will use that money to transplant, collar and monitor, use biological data to find issues and repair those issues and they will spend some during the fawning season by using helicopters to shoot coyotes before they eat the fawns--yea, that dude who spends money is really hurting us isn't he?

I don't care if it is 90% or 100%, IMO it is wrong for someone to be able to go to the front of the line based on what he wants to spend on buying an animal. I think there are others that agree, but seem to be a little hipocritical on this one. Thanks for educating me on where the money is used. Interesting, but not my issue. I do think spending money to fly coyotes is short sighted to benefit pronghorn.

You who do not know what this money is used for in Arizona should sit down and educate yourself prior to banging on the guy who worked his butt off to earn his money to spend it on one tag that will help 100's of tag holders for years to come.

I don't care if he worked his tail off for the $$$$ or whether he inherited it. My issue is not with the guy using the system, it is the system itself. That being said I don't think I could look myself in the mirror if I bought a critter that I would be able to hunt 365 days and year and then pay someone else to pick one out for me and give me a call when he was ready to be collected. This may be exaggerated for all hunts, but I know it happens. I see the same thing up here.

By the way i have guided a few hunters who had money that could out walk the majority of the people i know and they take pride in the hunt as much as anyone i have ever known---not everyone who has money are out of shape and lazy.

I am sure there are many outfitted hunters that are in great shape and can get it done. I have gone outfitted before and don't have an issues. I do notice many gov tag holders aren't exactly at their college weight.

Really---dude you don't even know me--i am never late to the game and i do not sit down for anyone.

I speak my mind and that is how i feel. You write something that doesn't even contribute nor does it have any rebuttal. Come back and write something that is useful--or--simply sit down..

I have not called anyone names and i have only educated you and others...you need to check yourself brother.

Fair enough. I apologize. Welcome to the board. Do you have any hunt pics or stories to share on another thread?

 

[Big Fin]

Teach me to be gone for five days in the north woods with hardly any internet connection. Just now perusing threads upon my return to civilization and surprised to see this one turn to a spat.

Not sure how it ended up this way. I enjoy Eli's big buck pics. If someone wants to call me a hypocrite because I am very critical of the UT/SFW model, yet I don't criticize the AZ system, go right ahead. Yeah, I think it would be reasonable to have some normal season dates, rather than the 365 days, but I doubt that would have much difference in the quality of the bucks these guys would shoot when using Eli and Tony.

Anyone suffering from rich guy envy will have to get over it. Not saying I like the idea of the same guys buying their way to the front of the line, but it is hard to argue with what AZ has done with their auction antelope tags and what MT has done with their sheep tags.

Given Miller has had as many amazing hunts as anyone who shares hunts with us here, I have a hard time believing he suffers from much rich guy envy.

Eli is a great guy. Anyone who wants to bash him personally (different from bashing a tag system one might not agree with) should remove their head from their arse. He has helped more non-guided hunters than any outfitter I know, many of whom hang out on this site.

On my AZ hunt last year, a rifle hunter came to my camp who Eli and Tony had sent to the unit, armed with pics, maps, everything. No cost to the guy, who happened to know a friend of theirs. Result was that opening morning, this self-guided hunter tagged the 90" buck that Eli and Tony had given him the low down on.

I have hunted units and tags where Eli had the same tag. Eli shared information before, during, and after the hunt. I shared what I had with him, the same I would with any fellow hunter. I hope someday we both have the same tag again. If so, I will probably tell the cameras to stay home and I would ask if we could hang out and hunt antelope together. Two antelope nuts enjoying the time chasing the biggest bucks we might find.

I hope Eli continues to post those pics here. I have learned a lot from pics he posts; deceptive angles, final scores compared to what I guessed, how I misjudge certain shapes or profiles. That adds value to this site and those who want to learn more.

Anyone who has a problem with Eli posting those pics here should probably ignore the thread, so to avoid their butt from getting hurt. Too many hard core antelope nuts on this site to make Eli feel unwelcome in sharing his pics and information here.

And, expect me to continue to be very harsh on the SFW/UT auction tag model, while not saying much about the AZ system. Hard to even compare the two states and systems when you look at the differences. I suspect the ONLY thing folks would want changed in AZ, short of eliminating the auction tags all together, would be to shorten the auction tag season. AZ keeps the tags extremely limited (two per species), has very transparent requirements (which is why SFW will probably never be awarded one), and can show where the money benefits wildlife.

As Harley stated, now that I am done with the soap box, I will step down and give it back to the next person.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

Fairly true, the sad part is come this fall this buck will probably get killed by some fat old dude who spent a ton of money on a tag that would take years for someone to draw, while he jumped to the front of the line by opening up a checkbook.

Nobody can ever 'draw' this tag--it can only be bought--and is good for any unit for 365 days, which is one of my main problems with the auction tags.

I know the $$$$ they raise does a ton of good, and they are probably a necessary evil in the fund-raising efforts but it still flies in the face of good management strategy. That said, the chasm between the few tags that get auctioned (by AZ) and the tag grab authored by $FW puts them in different ballparks of different sports.

I've never hunted goats but I hope to someday and I sure appreciate the insight (and pics) Eli has shared on this board.

 

[TLH]

Miller,

Thanks for the thoughts. I understand we all have issues with certain things with in our sport but we are all hunters and we all need to back each other--or we will fragment even more then we will lose what we love.

I see the 365 day season is one of the biggest issues--the 365 day rule was put in place to stop ultra lights, chute plains, choppers, and plains from flying before the hunts. We all know that a buck or bull or ram will only be prime for about 2 months out of the year because of broken antlers and horns and for antelope--shrinkage after after October. I think that rule actually helps keep many monster animals safe in Arizona.

The fly over shooting of coyotes in Arizona is during fawning season and it has shown a 40% great fawn survival rates where they have done this so in that regard it does help tremendously--but as for a long term solution you are correct but it does do what it needs to do for the time frame.

Thanks for the welcome Miller--i do have a few hunting pictures and a few stories and will post this in the proper forum.

T.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Actually when you think of it being a 365 day tag, it really isn't. By the time the animal grows it's peak antler/horn size there are not nearly that number of days to hunt it. Granted there would be a lot more days than a normal season tag would allow though, but the money difference gained by that expensive tag may justify it. Scouting can be done year around by anyone, other than in winter range areas that are off limits to everyone and probably wouldn't be where the animal is killed anyway. I would say with the AZ system only having two tags per species and the price raised by the tags being what it is that maybe there should be more of an opportunity for the person drawing the tag. Anyway, kudos to BigFin and all the others who have spoken highly of Eli, and I hope he returns here as often as his schedule allows! Edit: After posting, I now see that TLH has basically said what I have here on time involved with the tag.

 

[sotherncoloradoguy]

lil buck

 

[wyoming556]

You guys should be politicians. You stand by what you believe when it's convenient and when it's not well lets just say the tune changes drastically. Pretty different than the normal us (Diy OYO hunters who draw tags) against them (wealthy auction tag hunters and outfitters) you normally preach.

If your business was created primairly for the auction tag/commissiones tag clients it's pretty safe to say you like having these tags available for your customers and that more auction tags would benefit your business.

If you like auction tags becsue they benefit your business which side of the SFW fence do you vote on?

I do not like the fact that with a thick enough checkbook you can jump in front of others who have been applying for that same tag for years and even decades before. Do you?

Even just one auction tag is too many and gives a foot in the door to those who want to take more tags away from the draw to be sold. They justify it by talking about all the good their money did for the wildlife just like has been the case on this thread. It happens (auction, landowner, commissioners tags) in almost every western state and I simply don't support it. Do you support auctioning wildlife?

I do not like the 365 day seasons availabele to these hunters and in the end outfitters they hire with the same checkbooks they bought their tag with. Do you like year long seasons?

Oh and TG I really like your justifying the year long season with stuff like "they really don't get all year to hunt with horn growth, shrinkage, etc. You are easily one of the biggest sack lickers on this board, funny to wach, keep licking.

Anoither one of your classic threads-Mossback now involved in tag grab. I can't figure out if you support outfitters who guide auction/landowner/commissioner tags or your are against them when you make satatements like Yep, it's come down to the rich guys and those who make top dollar from them against us common DIY/OYOA folks!

Another one
Quote-He has everything to gain from these tags. The areas are high caliber units and people who draw will want to take advantage of opportunity and hire a guy who will help them get it done. No surprise to me. He makes huge money off of these great units. He's licking his chops.


Just decide what you believe and stand behind it insted of jumping sides whenever it's convenient.

 

[Smoked]

Keep posting pictures Eli, the only part that I hate about the pictures is that I didn't draw an antelope tag this year. I would book a hunt with Eli if i had the money just to gain the knowledge and experience that he has. I have killed some nice antelope over the years but there is always something new to learn about hunting any animal. There is a place for all types of hunting whether you agree with it or not. This is a free country and if he wants to make his living being an outfitter then good for him.