Biden vs Gun Owners

[VikingsGuy]

This Supreme Court ruling is brought up again and again to support the concept of one form or another of restrictive rights of the SCOTUS to regulate gun ownership. Here is a part of it:

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms- bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.

As you read this, it starts with “the court’s interpretation”

One of the greatest powers a sitting president can do is appoint a Supreme Court Justice. We have seen this happen as long as the country has been founded and every Justice is screened by either side for the benefit or cost of that appointment to either side of the political spectrum.

To place any amount of faith in a Supreme Court ruling, that it is indeed, objective and unbiased is erroneous. Both sides benefit one way or another with many of these rulings as they pass through the Supreme Court of this land and yet personal bias is continually a component that steals some of the true purpose of this Court.

When you see how often this happens in lower courts, it is obvious that these justices are not as unbiased as we assumed they were.

An example of this how the 9th district court of appeals, makes arbitrary rulings on such controversial issues and hardly ever have to account for these decisions in regards to California’s ban on LCM (large capacity magazines) in a suit filed 14 August 2020, arguing the legality of LCM and using “Heller” as an example to restrict something as simple as a magazine:

“But the ruling in Heller was “not unlimited” and rejected the idea that citizens may “keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” Id. at 626. Heller thus recognized that certain exceptions to the Second Amendment apply. For example, weapons that are “dangerous and unusual” fall outside the Second Amendment’s protection.”

I don’t trust our SCOTUS and their rulings much more than I trust the tyrants our fore fathers put the second amendment into the Constitution to protect us from...

Wow - if you will place no faith in any SCOTUS ruling ("To place any amount of faith in a Supreme Court ruling, that it is indeed, objective and unbiased is erroneous"), then you do not respect our constitution, and there is no point in group discussion because only you alone apparently can interpret the document. But then again, on what basis can we be assured you are 100% objective and 100% unbiased? So, if even you can not be trusted to interrupt the law/constitution then I guess the anarchists are right. Every man, woman and child for themselves, because no one can be trusted and every person is their own tyrant. Good luck running a society with this belief system

As the thread has reached this level (even worse than going nazi in the mid #300s) I am out. Take care all.

 

[Pmacc60]

That same Constitution established SCOTUS as the ultimate arbiter of constitutional questions. So unless/until it’s overturned, Heller is the law of the land. Per THE CONSTITUTION.

Yes I understand but that doesn’t make it right ! It just is and I will honor the law however it’s a pretty easy thing to understand and the government is infringing the right.

 

[Pmacc60]

This is simply the WRONG answer. Not ANY right under the constitution has EVER been read that way by ANY Justice. We do NOT get to make up our own personal laws. The constitution and the laws only mean what the supreme court says they do. It has been that way since Marbury v. Madison in 1803. Reasonable people can disagree on many topics, but they do not get to make up their own legal interpretations. Until you get 5 members of SCOTUS to agree with you, this is not at all a meaningful response to the discussion.

It wasn’t implied that way , the Constitution is easy in this regard the government law makers don’t like the restrictions to their powers and the SCOTUS can change their ruling depending on political appointment. The Constitution is much purer than the SCOTUS . That’s just the way it is.

 

[Bowhunter999]

Lots of us in this boat - I was brought home from the hospital to public housing. My parents worked hard and pushed my education, my kids have more opportunities now than I did then, but the love is all the same.

At the same time, I have a lot of empathy for kids of color growing up in poor urban areas today. There are a dozen or more moments in my teens and early twenties that I am sure would have gone very differently than they did if I was black. I have no doubt if I had been born the same in every way except my skin color, my dumb early year choices would have left me bagging groceries now (if not dead).

I can respect your words, your early life circumstances and your present ability to voice your opinions in the intelligent manner. However, your sentence of “My parents worked hard and pushed my education” were more than likely where you stand today. Just how many kids who find themselves in trouble, in any form, are being, or have been brought up in a one parent family. Many without a male parent for support or guidance. Some figures go as high as 70% of inner city births are out of wedlock. Many inner city schools are graduating students of only 3% who are math literate, and only 7% who are literate at reading. We talk of poverty, but what employer is going to hire people of that education. And before anyone calls me racist, I am only relating facts, and only pointing to circumstances and not criticisms ! So, it is not all the white communities fault, there are some terribly difficult hurdles for young black children, and these issues are not easily solved. it can not be accomplished until black leadership takes more involvement in the plight of family structure.

Please excuse this being somewhat off topic, it is only in response to VG’s reply that I am including.......

 

[cacklercrazy]

There is nothing to see here - a parallel would be a random post that "Non-res get fewer tags" - with no specific bill, regulation or change to discuss. A nebulous gripe with no purpose.

Biden repeatedly state his view on the topic on the campaign stump. I will take him at his word that he wants his version of "common sense gun control" (which I will likely object to) and that if blocked in congress he will consider EO where his AG tells him he can (to which I will probable disagree as I hate EO by either party). He is now POTUS. I assume this is on his list somewhere, but doesn't look to be on top. If he actually does anything we can then argue about whether such action is lawful or not. Until then this post is just tribal drums beating with no point and no new info. In fact it is probably driven by Trump-twitter withdrawl. Normal society doesn't have a daily political crisis, the law moves slowly, but many left and right seem addicted to the daily fight. I for one urge a return to thoughtful normalcy.

We haven't and will have thoughtful normalcy. First off there is no normal for the left. Second off irrational people don't have a normal thought pattern anyway.

 

[MTGomer]

It’s just a simple, common sense gun law, sounds a lot like it’s just 15 days to flatten the curve.

 

[BenInMT]

How great America would be if rights really could not be infringed and anyone could go buy surface to air missiles!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

How great America would be if rights really could not be infringed and anyone could go buy surface to air missiles!

I haven’t heard the best things about Afghanistan.

 

[Irrelevant]

I’m like one generation removed from this and I’ve got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel with life right now and could end up right back there at any moment.
I’ve also worked around a lot of people like this for over 12 years and like you, it often makes me question what I believe.

the hard thing about debating with you and @VikingsGuy is that you guys have actual degrees and do this for a living.

Since you guys are listening tho, as a representative of the lsu community I don’t want any more gun laws.

happy Sunday.

Remember is much as we all like VG, he's still a lawyer. And they're never wrong. Just ask them. Lol

 

[Western Traveler1]

Hey, I just found this thread...29 pages and 582 comments.
Good gawd, can someone just provide the cliff notes?

 

[Bowhunter999]

Hey, I just found this thread...29 pages and 582 comments.
Good gawd, can someone just provide the cliff notes?

The rest of us have endured it, there are no short cuts !

 

[Shangobango]

Hey, I just found this thread...29 pages and 582 comments.
Good gawd, can someone just provide the cliff notes?

Left= bad, right = bad, 2nd amendment absolute, 2nd amendment worthless, Supreme Court=Tyranny, Supreme Court=Pure as driven snow.

 

[noharleyyet]

A voluminous compilation of semantic nits, pejorative anecdotes, compelling anecdotes, and opinion shaming....juxtaposed.

 

[4ohSick]

We have a spiritual (not the same as religious, though it may be) problem, not a gun problem or a drug problem. That's why our fixes fail. We move ever further from everything that was once good; family, decency, hard work, respect, and instead applaud baby mamas (how many TV shows?), rappers with violent and misogynistic lyrics, and millionaire athletes with drug problems. These are the idols the disaffected wish to engender.

And philandering real estate moguls...

 

[4ohSick]

Aren’t you some form of a politician irl?
obviously you’re gonna win this debate.
but,

I don’t think the scenario you mentioned above really exists.
There’s always a way to put food in the cupboard.

If you choose gun violence as a way to make a living you’re morally compromised and have no place in our society.

I understand the drugs, I understand a lot of other crimes, but I don’t understand shooting at each other.

Just a quick google on this, so take the figures with a grain of salt, but average rent in Chicago is $1,800 per month. At the federal minimum wage, a person would have to work 58 hours a week to afford only rent. Now I recognize that this is missing a lot of factors - housing assistance, IL minimum wage is higher than federal, etc - but it's clear that supporting a family on a low wage job isn't possible in a big city. And the people working food and service jobs have to live in the same communities as the people paying for their services.

Everyone argues that the breakdown of the family is the problem here, but how is a family unit supposed to function when the parent(s) have to work 80 hours a week at multiple jobs to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table?

 

[Hydrophilic]

.

Just a quick google on this, so take the figures with a grain of salt, but average rent in Chicago is $1,800 per month. At the federal minimum wage, a person would have to work 58 hours a week to afford only rent. Now I recognize that this is missing a lot of factors - housing assistance, IL minimum wage is higher than federal, etc - but it's clear that supporting a family on a low wage job isn't possible in a big city. And the people working food and service jobs have to live in the same communities as the people paying for their services.

Everyone argues that the breakdown of the family is the problem here, but how is a family unit supposed to function when the parent(s) have to work 80 hours a week at multiple jobs to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table?

This is front and center to many problems in this country. With a lifestyle like you described the family unit is more prone to breaking.

Private sector unions played a big part in creating and maintaining a strong middle class. They have nosedived, while many manufacturing jobs have simultaneously been sent overseas. There has been a decades long winning streak for large corporations in this country. Around the time of Lewis Powell Jr they started #winning even more.

 

[Fullquiver]

Just a quick google on this, so take the figures with a grain of salt, but average rent in Chicago is $1,800 per month. At the federal minimum wage, a person would have to work 58 hours a week to afford only rent. Now I recognize that this is missing a lot of factors - housing assistance, IL minimum wage is higher than federal, etc - but it's clear that supporting a family on a low wage job isn't possible in a big city. And the people working food and service jobs have to live in the same communities as the people paying for their services.

Everyone argues that the breakdown of the family is the problem here, but how is a family unit supposed to function when the parent(s) have to work 80 hours a week at multiple jobs to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table?

Move to Detroit where you can buy a house for $1800

 

[BigHornRam]

Focus on the topic boys and girls, focus.

I am 100% in favor of letting Joe, Chuck, and Nancy slide all their chips into the center of the table with their pair of threes. Let the fools overplay their hand and be done with this nonsense.

 

[4ohSick]

Move to Detroit where you can buy a house for $1800

262 Elmhurst St, Highland Park, MI 48203 | Zillow

262 Elmhurst St, Highland Park MI, is a Multiple Occupancy home that contains 2200 sq ft and was built in 1914.It contains 2 bathrooms. The Rent Zestimate for this Multiple Occupancy is $1,095/mo, which has increased by $1,095/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

Off by a factor of 10, but let's run with it. Let's also assume this fictional family living paycheck to paycheck can summon up the money to move 300 miles and can somehow get a bank loan for $20k, does this home look like that would be an upward move? Buying a home in another state sounds like an expensive nightmare for an upper-middle class person, let alone someone struggling to survive.

 

[Fullquiver]

262 Elmhurst St, Highland Park, MI 48203 | Zillow

262 Elmhurst St, Highland Park MI, is a Multiple Occupancy home that contains 2200 sq ft and was built in 1914.It contains 2 bathrooms. The Rent Zestimate for this Multiple Occupancy is $1,095/mo, which has increased by $1,095/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

Off by a factor of 10, but let's run with it. Let's also assume this fictional family living paycheck to paycheck can summon up the money to move 300 miles and can somehow get a bank loan for $20k, does this home look like that would be an upward move? Buying a home in another state sounds like an expensive nightmare for an upper-middle class person, let alone someone struggling to survive.

Look harder. There are homes every year that sell for back taxes in the property for the price I quoted..