Best Muzzleloader to Buy?- Short Notice

[Gerald Martin]

Never said it was rocket science.
The process takes significant more time to get dialed in for hunting. Finding proper load, then sighting in is more time than fussing with crosshairs.
Fair amount of cleaning between.
I am not going to encourage hasty preparation for " good enough" results.

Hogwash. I can grab a box of round balls the night before I hunt and be “good to go” by morning.

Only question I have is how do you keep the ball from rolling out of the barrel when it’s pointed down?

This heritage season is too hard. It would be much easier if we just simplified it to allow inlines and sabots.

#opportunity
#itsmyheritage
#Iwanthelicopterseason

 

[BrentD]

This heritage season is too hard. It would be much easier if we just simplified it to allow inlines and sabots.

NOW you are talking complicated!

 

[Gerald Martin]

In honor of the heritage of Montana’s new immigrants and to properly manage massive overpopulations of elk…



It’s my heritage brah!

 

[mtmuley]

I'll disagree here. And I'll offer to coach anyone that wants to try via email if you like. This is not rocket science, but a little help avoiding potholes won't hurt.

Bullcrap. Like picking up a bow right before season. Just cause it's up your alley don't make it a good idea here. mtmuley

 

[Hem]

Frankly, it's simpler than centerfires if you ask me. Getting it ready to go might take just one trip to the range. Finding a load is pretty simple. There aren't really that many combinations to test. Adjusting sights is as simple as simple can be. Not like mounting a modern scope.

Cleaning is dead simple. Dihydrogen Oxide does it everytime, but Hydrogen Hydroxide will work in a pinch. And does not take particularly long either. A pipe cleaner or q-tip are nice, but a rod and a jag and some patches will get it done. Anything beats trying to scrub copper out of a bore.

All the potholes are easily avoided with a little help. Beyond that round up ball, patch, and powder are about the only challenges.

I've helped a few with their first rodeo and "good enough" has resulted in dead deer. Elk are simply bigger targets.

The biggest problem might be overcoming imagined obstacles and internet legend.

Well I'm sure there is a shit load of hunters that would benefit from your black powder made easy 14 day crash course. Actually three weekend days for working stiffs.

 

[mtmuley]

Elk are simply bigger targets.

SMFH. mtmuley

 

[BrentD]

Bullcrap. Like picking up a bow right before season. Just cause it's up your alley don't make it a good idea here. mtmuley

Nothing like picking up a recurve. Not even in the same universe. I do both.

Can you align sights? Break a trigger? Exactly what is hard about this, and especially harder than inclines?

What have you ever done with a roundball gun?

Also, I'm not good with acronyms I didn't write myself.

 

[Brian in Montana]

Hogwash. I can grab a box of round balls the night before I hunt and be “good to go” by morning.

Only question I have is how do you keep the ball from rolling out of the barrel when it’s pointed down?

Genuine LOL!

 

[mtmuley]

Nothing like picking up a recurve. Not even in the same universe. I do both.

Can you align sights? Break a trigger? Exactly what is hard about this, and especially harder than inclines?

What have you ever done with a roundball gun?

Also, I'm not good with acronyms I didn't write myself.

The weapon itself is not the root of the issue. Pay attention. But, I don't feel all of the new black powder commandos here in Montana are a good idea. Just because it's your preffered method you are involved the conversation. It's a bullshit season. Carry on educating. mtmuley

 

[Gerald Martin]

Anyone who cares about ethical proficiency has made preparations for this season months ago.

Anyone who hasn’t and is just now gearing up could obviously care less about whether they should refrain or not.

 

[BrentD]

So, it boils down to neither you, Gerald, or you, mtmuley, have a clue what you are talking about.

And if it is NOT about the weapon, what IS it about? Getting closer? Well, that's hunting. You learn by hunting.

Look, if you wanted to do this, the hard parts will be on either end of the story.

On the left end, getting the rifle, balls, powder and caps would be challenging but I'd help with that to some extent. If you can find a .50 or .54 roundball gun and some powder, I can make sure you have rocks or caps, balls and patches. And then go from there.

I've done this with enough rookies that, if you are any good at taking directions, this is very doable.

On the right end of this story, the hard part will be getting close and making a good shot. That's on you. But if you can shoot half ways decently and get within 100 yds, it's a done deal.

 

[mtmuley]

Hey Brent. Do a search about Montana and the season structures. And mule deer management. And... It goes far beyond your penchant for primitive weapons. Maybe you could start a thread to coach up and coming Montana muzzleloader hunters. Starts soon so hurry. mtmuley

 

[tjones]

And if it is NOT about the weapon, what IS it about? Getting closer? Well, that's hunting. You learn by hunting.

Problem #1 with the season

But if you can shoot half ways decently and get within 100 yds, it's a done deal.

Problem #2 with the season

And that’s just the 1st 2 problems

Understand?

 

[BrentD]

Hey Brent. Do a search about Montana and the season structures. And mule deer management. And... It goes far beyond your penchant for primitive weapons. Maybe you could start a thread to coach up and coming Montana muzzleloader hunters. Starts soon so hurry. mtmuley

Sure thing. You can't answer direct questions can you?

The issue is it reasonable to become adequately deer/elk proficient with a roundball gun in 2 weeks?
The Answer is yes.

You say No. So, by what experiences, or other qualifications do you say that? You say it is not about the weapon. So what IS it about? After all the season seems to be defined by the weapon.

Note, there are three direct questions in there. Fish them out and use your expertise to tell us the answers.

I'm not debating season structures, deer management, etc. That wasn't the issue. See my first post in response to HEM.

 

[Gerald Martin]

So, it boils down to neither you, Gerald, or you, mtmuley, have a clue what you are talking about.

And if it is NOT about the weapon, what IS it about? Getting closer? Well, that's hunting. You learn by hunting.

Look, if you wanted to do this, the hard parts will be on either end of the story.

On the left end, getting the rifle, balls, powder and caps would be challenging but I'd help with that to some extent. If you can find a .50 or .54 roundball gun and some powder, I can make sure you have rocks or caps, balls and patches. And then go from there.

I've done this with enough rookies that, if you are any good at taking directions, this is very doable.

On the right end of this story, the hard part will be getting close and making a good shot. That's on you. But if you can shoot half ways decently and get within 100 yds, it's a done deal.

@BrentD, I won’t disagree with you. I have 100% confidence I could take one of your guns and be lethal at 100 yards.

When I used to hunt with a Thompson Center Hawken back in VA, I could hold a 4” group @100 yards. I killed 8 deer with that gun, from ranges of 30 -130 yards. I shot 90 grains of pistol Powerdex and 260 grain lead sabots.

When I moved to MT in 2002 the gun sat unused for several years until I decided I wanted to hunt spring bears. Thinking (mistakenly) that I needed to be under traditional muzzleloader regs for that hunt I picked up a box of Buffalo bullets or Maxi hunters. I loaded them up and headed for the range.
At 50 yards, my first shot went over the banana box I had my target pinned to. The second shot skipped off the ground five feet short. I don’t remember where the third shot landed but I knew I wasn’t proficient enough with that load to hunt anything. So I didn’t.

I am sure that if I had the interest and willingness to make the effort, I could have found a load that gun liked. I didn’t. That’s on me.

I am sure there’s plenty of guys who have shot muzzleloaders who are going to go out and have a great hunt and kill critters in an ethical manners. Kudos to them. I wish them well.

I am just as sure there’s going to be more folks who get excited about the extra opportunity who get geared up and are about as accurate as I was the last time I shot. Truth be told they probably are as inaccurate with their rifles.

All these points aren’t where my main contention lies.

The main contention I have against a new season is that it adds even more pressure to an already strained resource. Yet, MT hunters and policy makers don’t have the foresight or desire for any limitations on “opportunity” for the sake of conservation or protection of quality. That’s the beef. Unfortunately, it will not change unless enough MT hunters change their attitude about wildlife management to do what’s right for the resource instead of caring only about exploitation of the resource.

It’s not about the tool. It’s about the ones using the tool.

 

[mtmuley]

Sure thing. You can't answer direct questions can you?

The issue is it reasonable to become adequately deer/elk proficient with a roundball gun in 2 weeks?
The Answer is yes.

You say No. So, by what experiences, or other qualifications do you say that? You say it is not about the weapon. So what IS it about? After all the season seems to be defined by the weapon.

Note, there are three direct questions in there. Fish them out and use your expertise to tell us the answers.

I'm not debating season structures, deer management, etc. That wasn't the issue. See my first post in response to HEM.

Have a nice evening Brent. mtmuley

 

[BrentD]

Problem #1 with the season


Problem #2 with the season

And that’s just the 1st 2 problems

Understand?

And how will more time than 2 weeks help with either of those (See HEM's post for reference).

 

[tjones]

And how will more time than 2 weeks help with either of those (See HEM's post for reference).

If you have to ask,,,

 

[BrentD]

well mtmuley has thrown in the towel and admitted defeat. Sorry to see you go, but you didn't know what the hell you were talking about. I doubt you will ever learn.

Gerald, I too started with the 1 in 48" twist TC Hawken and Pdex (awful, but functional stuff).

A roundball and 80-95 grs of powder and you would have been in business.

The bottom line is if there is someone here that has been thinking about taking the plunge and maybe has a rifle or can lay hands on one quickly, I'm sure I can get a complete muzzleloading neophyte ready in two weeks. If there are issues with the season, so be it, but that's not an issue that has anything to do with 2 weeks or 2 months lead time. If you think the resource is too strained, I'll not argue - I don't argue about what I don't know. But as for getting proficient with a traditional muzzleloader - IT IS NOT HARD - except on the internet.

 

[mtmuley]

Brent, read what we have said. No defeat here. You just prove your ignorance trying to promote your beliefs about weapons. It isn't about that. Not at all. mtmuley