Brenton96
New member
Alright, I think I've pretty much been convinced to go with the warmer bag. Thanks for the input guys!
Backcountry sleeping bag
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There's a lot going on in a "how much bag" question. I use a 20* Valandre Mirage Sept-Nov. (23* actually), supplementing with other insulation as needed; below about 10* expected I will move to a warmer bag. If I didn't know exactly what I could expect of my gear I would probably err on the side of more down load. However, I'd take my 23* Mirage in a double wall shelter, with solid R sleeping pad, over some 500-600 fill cheapo thing that's "rated" for 0*. Shape of the bag (and the user), protection from air movement, metabolism, pad system, how long ago it was (and what) you ate...stuff like that all makes a difference.
Once you get your bag--whichever it is--I'd strongly recommend going out in your native hills and doing some winter camping to get a feel for things. I guess if I had to make a recommendation for a new user in your seasons of use I'd go 0*, but I would also be bumming if that was my only bag personally, 'cause I backpack a fair bit May-August too.
In the long run 15* difference in temp rating (and therefore a couple ounces of fill) isn't that huge of a deal. If that's what makes or breaks your trip, you probably made a mountain of incorrect judgment calls.
Once you get your bag--whichever it is--I'd strongly recommend going out in your native hills and doing some winter camping to get a feel for things. I guess if I had to make a recommendation for a new user in your seasons of use I'd go 0*, but I would also be bumming if that was my only bag personally, 'cause I backpack a fair bit May-August too.
In the long run 15* difference in temp rating (and therefore a couple ounces of fill) isn't that huge of a deal. If that's what makes or breaks your trip, you probably made a mountain of incorrect judgment calls.
Brenton96
New member
This is something I definitely plan on doing. If I need something different from what I end up getting, I'll be able to fine tune the set up before I actually go out to hunt.
I think there is some truth to this.
A couple of years ago I went through a similar situation. I really wanted/needed a newer warmer bag. I ultimately settled on a quality 15-degree bag. I liked the idea of less weight and not being too hot during most of hunting season. I bought a Sierra Designs Mobile Mummy (850) and have been very happy. I have been in single digit temps several times and been comfortable with a little added insultation (silk liner, hunting jacket over my feet and handwamer in the bottom of the bag). But, it all depends on how hot or warm you sleep and what you want to carry.
I might be wrong but ive heard it's more muscle mass. Women sleep colder because they have a higher body fat percentage and a lower muscle mass.
But I'm sure there's a lot of other factors like metabolism personal comforts psychology etc. Maybe a smart doctor person knows better.
rideold
Well-known member
I don't think it matters. I think metabolism is more of a factor. Some people just stay warmer than others.
Yeah it's definitely different between m and w on average to the point that bags have different rating on sex but other than that there are probably many explanations. I definitely believe the claim that muscle insulates better than fat but I'm sure you can find plenty of Arnold's from California that whine when the temp hits 60.
Im no expert, but I didn't hear any mention of a sleeping pad. I think that pad selection is going to be just as important as the bag when deciding. Your question related to what bag though, so for me....I have a 15 degree western mountaineer Badger, and hunted in a floorless shelter on top of snow this year with temps that got down into the teens. I was cold, but the second night I put on my puffy pants and wore my base layer top, along with dry socks when jumping in the fart sack, and that kept me fairly comfortable. My pad had an r value of 5 I think. And ironically, it was in wy at approximately 8500 feet in Mid October...LOL, I mention that because you discusses a similar elevation hunt in WY for November.
Face still got chilled, and I should also mention that I sleep cold as well. I think for a one bag set up, the 15 degree bag with a quality High R value pad is the way to go. But because you mention a November hunt, dropping to a 0 degree bag might be worthwhile as well. If you sleep cold... You can always add layers in the bag, or add a liner to the bag to increase the comfort a bit. And as others have said, during a warmer hunt....you can leave the bag unzipped, or use it more like a quilt I suppose. I haven't had that opportunity to use the bag in warmer conditions yet.
The other thing to decide on beforehand is are you going with Down or Synthetic? Mine is down, but with what I have listened to on podcasts, my next bag may very well be a synthetic. Slightly heavier, but much more suited to damp or wet conditions. Randy Newberg was speaking to an expert during a recent podcast discussing the two...and I cant remember which one it was...but the guy made a very good case for a synthetic bag. When I need to upgrade...I will be switching to synthetic.
Face still got chilled, and I should also mention that I sleep cold as well. I think for a one bag set up, the 15 degree bag with a quality High R value pad is the way to go. But because you mention a November hunt, dropping to a 0 degree bag might be worthwhile as well. If you sleep cold... You can always add layers in the bag, or add a liner to the bag to increase the comfort a bit. And as others have said, during a warmer hunt....you can leave the bag unzipped, or use it more like a quilt I suppose. I haven't had that opportunity to use the bag in warmer conditions yet.
The other thing to decide on beforehand is are you going with Down or Synthetic? Mine is down, but with what I have listened to on podcasts, my next bag may very well be a synthetic. Slightly heavier, but much more suited to damp or wet conditions. Randy Newberg was speaking to an expert during a recent podcast discussing the two...and I cant remember which one it was...but the guy made a very good case for a synthetic bag. When I need to upgrade...I will be switching to synthetic.
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Brenton96
New member
rbljack,
What sleeping pad do you have? I agree that the pad is just as important as the bag. I was planning on getting a therm-a-rest.
What sleeping pad do you have? I agree that the pad is just as important as the bag. I was planning on getting a therm-a-rest.
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Deleted member 28227
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Thermarest neoair xthem, I love it. I'm 6' 150... if you are bigger than me I recommend the next size up I pretty much max out that pad.
Synthetic versus Down is a valid discussion, I mostly backpack and an equivalent synthetic bag to mine weighs 2x and takes up 2x as much space in my pack. To be honest it's the space that killed a synthetic bag for me, I can put my down bag in a dry sack in my bag and then throw a rain cover over the whole pack, I would have to attached a synthetic bag to the outside of my pack. (A decent synthetic 0 degree bag will be around 1200ci a down 600 ci)
If I was doing a float trip, basecamp hunt, etc in a wet area I would probably go synthetic... so far I haven't had an issue keeping my down bag dry even in AK.
The synthetic vs down conversation is interesting. The podcast mentioned above was with Sitka's John Barklow on the Elk Talk podcast. I found the conversation interesting and will look into a snythetic bag if I start hunting wet environment (trip to Alaska). That being said I have been using a treated down bag in some very cold and snowy conditions, but am careful to keep as much moisture away from the bag as possible, and havent had any problems.
I also use a therm-a-rest neo air and love it, but I do have one slight difference. As funny as it may sound, I pack two sleeping pads. I have a therm-a-rest z-lite (acordian sytle foam pad) that goes with me on every hunt as a sitting pad because I hate sitting on cold damp ground, snow, frozen rocks and cactus. At night I throw the z-lite under my tent to add a little protection to the floor of my tent while sleeping. Between these two pads I have been very comfortable and havent had any problems with the lose of heat to the ground.
OhHeyThereBen
Active member
You can always bring with an extra quilt or something to add another layer. I personally have an REI 20 degree bag that works plenty well down to around 10 degrees. Then again, camping at that temperature sucks, so I typically just bring an extra light blanket if I think I may need one and avoid anything under 15 degrees if I can.
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Deleted member 28227
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I listened to this podcast, and while I will hands down say he has more experience than I do and more technical expertise in the area I do wish Randy had pushed him on bags just a bit. Sorry John but BS on synthetic bags "not quite as compressible and potentially a little bit heavier". The best bag on the market will at minimum be 1/3 heavier and 2x the size packed as an equivalent down bag, his statement in this area was just flat out inaccurate. Will we someone develop a better synthetic bag that closes the gap with down on these factors, maybe, but to claim we are there now is just not true. If you go 1/3 heavier and 2x space on half the items in your bag, each item not seeming like that big of a deal, you quickly go from a 35lb pack to a 50lb pack.
For the record my next bag will be a 0 degree synthetic bag for really cold wet trips, but let's call a spade a spade.
I used a down bag in Alaska to include 6 days being flown out where it rained most days. It's all a compromise. As long as you have layers and outerwear such that you will survive even if your bag gets wet your good. Keep your bag waterproofed in your pack so if you fall in the water and get some of our layers wet you will still have your bag.
Mine has treated down, waterproof sides, and water resistant top and bottom.
Mine has treated down, waterproof sides, and water resistant top and bottom.
Ps: i made a very concerted and successful effort to keep my bag dry though. I practiced backpacking on 30-50 degree rainy days to learn how.
belly-deep
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Barklow is a pretty hard core synthetics guy.
Some of his perspectives are interesting, but everything in moderation.
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Deleted member 28227
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Fixed it for you.
No doubt he knows his stuff.
https://www.sitkagear.com/experience/a-navy-seal-rewarming-drill
That said, there is a reason why only 10% or so of the high end sleeping bag offerings are synthetic, many companies don't even make them. Synthetic bags are a piece of equipment for a very specific activity, assuming you stuff your bag in a dry sack and put a little thought into keeping it dry (eg I always put my bag back in my dry sack every morning, even if I'm leaving my camp set up) there aren't a lot of circumstances where you could get yourself into trouble with a down bag that wouldn't be equally as crappy with a synthetic bag. My bag is down bag is pretty hydrophobic, I've woken up in the spring to heavy wet snow flattening my tent with my pad wet and the outside of my bag drenched but the down didn't clump and lose it's ability to keep me warm. I was also able to get it dry that day and continue on with my hunt. I am really skeptical that if I jumped into a lake in December with a down bag in one had and a synthetic bag in the other that either would do me a lick of good upon exiting the lake. I want a synthetic bag for long float hunts, in cold but humid areas, where there is a potential for things to be damp for 7-10 days straight, but I have no allusions that I won't still have to be vigilant about keeping my bag dry.
belly-deep
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Yes, he comes from a military background.
For a western hunter, I'm more inclined to follow the advice of another "hard core" group - mountaineering. There, down is king.
I pack this for emergency with my usual kit everywhere in the Backcountry.
This is a super light game changer for safety and casual use at camp. A fraction bulky though weight is nil. It packs just fine with all my usual gear w/in my shoulder strapped hip pack. (Kelty Elkhorn).
25 degrees with hoodie deal.
This is a super light game changer for safety and casual use at camp. A fraction bulky though weight is nil. It packs just fine with all my usual gear w/in my shoulder strapped hip pack. (Kelty Elkhorn).
25 degrees with hoodie deal.
