Application futility

[WapitiBob]

I’d keep applying for a cpl years and see what the actual application numbers are/do with the new changes. Doesn’t matter how many are ahead, what matters is how many of them apply for hunts.

 

[rogerthat]

Or get in really really good shape, keep applying and out live them. It’s worth a shot

 

[brownbear932008]

22 points for sheep, what do u do?

You have around 350 people with more points than you and almost 300 in your pool. Personally I'd quit throwing away money if it were me in your shoes.

Having said that I could also see some type of bonus squared point system down the road or they are gonna loose those applicants in the moose and sheep draws. So honestly you are in a pickle.

 

[232401a]

I’d keep applying for a cpl years and see what the actual application numbers are/do with the new changes. Doesn’t matter how many are ahead, what matters is how many of them apply for hunts.

Apply only? Or point also?

Guys on the sideline are always a concern, but we already know he is 1 point behind actual applying folks. And, we have seen the creep on ram/moose in the last few years has been very significant (since task force). He could easily be 2 points out of the running this year.

I would not pick the easiest ram tag from last year. Pick 2nd-4th easiest and hope that one is an anomaly. Everyone else will get scared and pick easiest.

 

[Treeshark]

Apply only? Or point also?

If I was in that position I would keep getting points and hope for a change in the future. This could come in the form of bonus conversion, R/NR tag allocation adjustments, and the one I hope for the most- increased game animals on the landscape.

I do feel some western states (especially WY) may currently be overplaying their hand a bit vs NRs based on the economic conditions of the past several years coupled with demographic advantages. You never know what a prolonged economic downturn/future NR application trends will do to these budgets that have come to rely on them.

 

[ccc23454]

I would suck it up and get points until rumors of bonus point conversions end or YOU decide what you want to do

 

[WapitiBob]

Less than half the available applicants are actually applying for a hunt. The apps per point level, per hunt area, data is available. "Less than 22" ie; <22 in the draw report isn't a singular point pool and doesn't provide the needed info.

 

[Big Fin]

You never know what a prolonged economic downturn/future NR application trends will do to these budgets that have come to rely on them.

I have the history of the 2009-2012 downturn in my spreadsheets for each state. Not sure if that is a reliable predictor of what would happen today. Based on that time period, folks switched to buying points to keep their place in line. The ratio of point buyers-to-applicants increased. When things rebounded, the ratio went the other direction, though not to the ratio before the downturn. States still sold every non-resident tag and there was the same number of people buying licenses/points to keep their place in line, as evidenced by the number of double digit point holders in CO, AZ, NV, UT, and WY.

Not sure if that 2009-2012 data would be applicable to a downturn now, but I suspect it would to some degree.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

22 points for sheep, what do u do?

You need to spend your time trying to formulate a pill that will make you live for 200 more years. Then you should sell the pill and spend the money on a guided bighorn hunt in Alberta, because even if you live another 200 years, you still may not draw a Wyoming bighorn tag.

 

[Treeshark]

States still sold every non-resident tag and there was the same number of people buying licenses/points to keep their place in line

I definitely understand that, and I’m sure those two statements will probably always be true.

My point was that there will be negative financial/budgetary consequences if there are:

-Greater reduction of nonresident tags sold (happening rapidly, especially in the past few years) than would be offset by price increases.

-Less new people entering the points game for some of these impossible tags (which there should be for some of these species if people had even a basic grasp of the math at work here, but that’s probably not a super safe assumption). This has the possible associated consequence of less qualifying NR licenses sold as well.

No idea if any of this would ever happen or if anyone would ever even care enough for it to impact anything in terms of these tags. If I was in that position with points I would hold out hope that something someday may change. Probably just me being stubborn, but I would keep after it and cross my fingers.

 

[BuzzH]

NRs that have 22 plus points could have drawn a lot of moose tags when they had 10-12 points.

The problem was, most either had no idea where to apply, so didn't, or were wasting their time applying for the snowies and bighorns.

Not having a plan and just buying points because huntinfool told you to, is not a winning strategy.

There were also sheep tags to be had as well with 10 points in 2010...unit 6 and 10.

In 2012, unit 6 and 8 were in the preference pool with 12 points.

In 2013, unit 1 had tag go in the 13 point preference pool.

In 2014 6 and 8 had tags go in the 14 point pool.

In 2015 unit 8 tag went in the 15 point pool.

I'm not feeling sorry for anyone with 22 or more points and CHOSE not to go sheep and moose hunting in Wyoming.

 

[Treeshark]

I agree with all of that, I share your same apply vs point collect philosophy. Just saying what I would do if I found myself in that position today.

 

[232401a]

Speaking of futility, Wyoming let's the user process an application for moose & sheep tags for units that will not even have an NR tag the user has a chance of drawing.

It's 2023, shouldn't we be able to rely on WY GFD software to treat the customer intelligently and honestly? Most other states will warn a user, "no NR tags in this unit". Or, simply remove the "not applicable" units from the list the NR has a chance to choose from.

Not Wyoming GF, they'll take your money and laugh at you later when you show up on a report as having applied for a non-existent tag.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Speaking of futility, Wyoming let's the user process an application for moose & sheep tags for units that will not even have an NR tag the user has a chance of drawing.

It's 2023, shouldn't we be able to rely on WY GFD software to treat the customer intelligently and honestly? Most other states will warn a user, "no NR tags in this unit". Or, simply remove the "not applicable" units from the list the NR has a chance to choose from.

Not Wyoming GF, they'll take your money and laugh at you later when you show up on a report as having applied for a non-existent tag.

Why would you apply for a unit with no available tags?

 

[232401a]

Why would you apply for a unit with no available tags?

No one would intentionally do so.

We use software today so that cars drive themselves.

But Wyoming can't develop software to remove a unit from an NR's drop down list? Or warn user on screen that no NR tag exists? Or that no random NR tag exists? Or didn't exist last year.

Utah, Colorado and Nevada agency software all protect NR users from making these mistakes.

 

[BuzzH]

No one would intentionally do so.

We use software today so that cars drive themselves.

But Wyoming can't develop software to remove a unit from an NR's drop down list? Or warn user on screen that no NR tag exists? Or that no random NR tag exists? Or didn't exist last year.

Utah, Colorado and Nevada agency software all protect NR users from making these mistakes.

The GF lists the units with random tags available, always have.

If you're too dumb to read, then you're probably too dumb to apply, sorry have no sympathy.

Plus, every applicant is entered in the preference draw first, then the random, regardless of point totals.

So, Crampy, before you continue to complain about the WY draw, maybe you should study up on how it actually works first.

If you don't like the way Wyoming conducts their draw, apply elsewhere, nobody is forcing you to apply.

I've applied here since 1998 and I've never been confused about what tags were available and what I was applying for.

 

[Zim]

You need to spend your time trying to formulate a pill that will make you live for 200 more years. Then you should sell the pill and spend the money on a guided bighorn hunt in Alberta, because even if you live another 200 years, you still may not draw a Wyoming bighorn tag.

Or a Time Machine that takes him back to the 1970’s would also work. For pre-internet draw odds.

 

[THINKIN6X6]

I remember a time when you could get two antelope buck tags in Wyoming. One through the draw and then buy an additional leftover buck tag with zero points. This was all around the economic down turn in 2008ish and a few years afterwards. Hunting was awesome. Few people and game everywhere. Not sure we will ever see something like that again. Those leftover units are now 2-4 point units today and saturated with hunters on public land. I have been fortunate to go on many great hunts. I believe younger hunters will not experience those same opportunities. It is what it is I guess, but many of us are very fortunate to have been in the point game for decades. If I was just starting out I'd be hard pressed to get into the point game for M,G,S and even elk in some states the way things are going. Times have changed. Alot.

 

[Zim]

You need to spend your time trying to formulate a pill that will make you live for 200 more years. Then you should sell the pill and spend the money on a guided bighorn hunt in Alberta, because even if you live another 200 years, you still may not draw a Wyoming bighorn tag.

Or a Time Machine that takes him back to the 1970’s would also work. For pre-internet odds. I started apps in 1996 early enough for many premium hunts, but still missed the boat on any sheep tag. Despite almost 30 points it ain’t gonna happen. But was smart enough to realize that in WY in time to bail quickly.

 

[BuzzH]

Or a Time Machine that takes him back to the 1970’s would also work. For pre-internet odds. I started apps in 1996 early enough for many premium hunts, but still missed the boat on any sheep tag. Despite almost 30 points it ain’t gonna happen. But was smart enough to realize that in WY in time to bail quickly.

If you started buying points for sheep in Wyoming in 1996, you blew it, you would have had a tag easily.