Anti-grazing activist’s style rubs ranchers wrong way

[Ithaca 37]

Here's some insight into Jon Marvel.

"“I´m not a radical,” he said. “I´m a pragmatist, and I deal within the laws of the land. That´s more than I can say for a lot of ranchers out there.”"

That's very true---Marvel stays within the law and forces the government to enforce the law. The people who don't like that are usually breaking the law.

"“He´s mad, all right,” said Ron Gillett, a hunting outfitter from Stanley and a wolf reintroduction foe. “He´s a kook. That´s all there is to it. He´s a damned kook.”"

We've discussed Gillet in some of the wolf topics. He wants all wolves in Idaho exterminated. The newspaper editorial even identified him as very counter productive.

Here's more of todays Marvel story in the Idaho Statesman: "“He´s controversial,” said conservationist and Idaho State University political science professor Ralph Maughan. “But whenever you do something big like this, some people aren´t going to like it. He speaks truth to power, and most politicians and big-interest groups have never had anyone talk to them as frankly as he does.”"

http://www.idahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=32004

Keep up the good work, Jon!!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-02-2003 10:06: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

I dont know how anyone can complain about a person who demands that ranchers and the various agencies adhere to laws they agreed to?

How dare Jon Marvel make them obey the law.

Oh, and legally outbidding a rancher on a PUBLIC lands lease, why that....

He should realize, that since he doesnt have a couple hundred cows, he shouldnt have the same rights as those that do.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Well, Buzz, maybe some of the other posters here in SI can explain why they don't want Marvel to force ranchers and gummint agencies to obey the law!

 

[Michaelr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>maybe some of the other posters here in SI can explain why they don't want Marvel to force ranchers and gummint agencies to obey the law! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe that anybody has said that!
you saying that we do makes you a liar

I agree 100% that the laws need to be followed.
My problem is and always has been that there are alot of good people who are following the law that end up getting shafted because of people like marvel.
I also tend to disagree with you because you stereotype ranchers as all being big bad evil land destroyers. And that just isn't true, there are alot more good than bad.
the good ones just never get talked about.

 

[BuzzH]

Michael said, "there are alot more good than bad."

Yet, 60% of the BLM grazing leases are in poor condition and are over-grazed. HMMMM???


More good than bad? If that was true I'd think less than 50% of the BLM lands would be in poor condition.

 

[1_pointer]

Mike- Could you give an example of a good land steward being ran out of business by Marvel? I am not aware of any, but I only follow ID happenings here on SI.

I know that Western Watersheds is after Deseret Land and Livestock, but haven't been able to make a case because of their good stewardship. The laws should be enforced, without that what good are they?

 

[Ithaca 37]

mike, "I don't believe that anybody has said that!
you saying that we do makes you a liar
I agree 100% that the laws need to be followed."

Go back and look at all the anti Marvel comments in other topics (including your comments)! Here's what you said about him and laws:

"I will not support people like Marvelous marvel who are arrogant, spiteful, mean spirited, and just plain don't give a rats ass about who they hurt with their agenda.

If marvel was compassionate, and caring, and really wanted to help bring about positive changes that were good for both the rancher/farmer and the land he would have my support and the support of alot more people than he now does.

I believe that people come first period.

There are alot of f-ed up rules and laws out there that cause alot of people alot of grief we need people who are willing to work for positive solutions. Not throw gas on an already hot fire."

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=001204


Kinda got ya again, didn't I? That sure doesn't sound like you're 100% in favor of laws being followed or enforced.

The more you post, the less credibility you have!

(That's a nice way of saying I caught you in another lie.)

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-03-2003 21:07: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Michaelr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My problem is and always has been that there are alot of good people who are following the law that end up getting shafted because of people like marvel.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
reread my post retard!!

where do you get that i don't think laws should be followed?

My comment that there are some silly laws??
come on you know that is true.

But that still isn't saying that they should be ignored, it is only saying that there are stupid laws on the books.

 

[Ithaca 37]

It sounds like you don't think some laws should be obeyed and you don't support Marvel, who is forcing the agencies and ranchers to obey the law. When you come right down to it, mike, that's all he's doing---exactly like he says. The fact that he's an abrasive zealot or you might not like him doesn't change the fact that he's operating within the law and forcing others to. There's no sense hating Marvel for that. Maybe you should just admit that you hate the truth, which is that Marvel is beating the ranchers. And he's doing it legally and effectively even though the deck is stacked against him.

Maybe you can explain to us what's wrong with that! And how about explaining to us how good people who are obeying the law are getting shafted? You make lots of claims you can't back up. Name a few law abiding people getting shafted by Marvel and give us the facts or admit you can't.

And mike, I really have nothing against you and I don't actually think you're a liar. I just think you're too stupid to remember what you've said and you post without having any facts to back up what you run your mouth about. And I've proven it many times.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-03-2003 22:41: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Michaelr]

THE DECK IS GETTING STACKED EVEN BETTER!
READ MY NEW POST.
"ITHACAS PANTIES IN A WAD"

 

[Michaelr]

atleast when you "claim" to "catch" me I don't go and delete the post LIKE YOU DO!!

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Yet, 60% of the BLM grazing leases are in poor condition and are over-grazed. HMMMM???


More good than bad? If that was true I'd think less than 50% of the BLM lands would be in poor condition. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now are these just in Wyoming, or are you talking about the whole U.S.???

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I just think you're too stupid to remember what you've said and you post without having any facts to back up what you run your mouth about. And I've proven it many times. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why do you guy's take a good debate and put in the name calling trash to ruin it???

 

[Ithaca 37]

Elkchser, Ask mike that one. Anyone who's been reading here awhile can see who started all the name calling, topics trying to ridicule people, etc. And go back and read Marland's comments in the "Name Calling" topic. mike is an immature little baby who doesn't know how to stay on topic and debate an issue. I held off a long time before I started giving him the same crap back that he gives me. And as soon as he quits, I will too. The same goes for MD4M. Actually, after all the time me and a few others spent showing those two they were stupid, it was time to start telling them in real plain language. Otherwise, they never would have figured it out on their own.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Ithica!!!
I have just stepped back in the ring after watching this go on for months..I looked over his posts also as of very recently and would have nailed him, but he hadn't called names, I will in the future... I love seeing a good debate, I just hate to see a good debate ruined.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Elkchser, I wonder if you noticed mike's topic with my name in it in an inflammatory way has been deleted today? Have you noticed the pictures he posts after my posts? Call that keeping the debate clean and on topic? Do you see me posting pictures of him or starting topics with his name in the title and an inflammatory comment?

He and MD4M started this crap and I finally got sick enough of it to start replying.

 

[BuzzH]

Elkchsr, thats on BLM lands nation wide. I would guess some states are much worse than 60 percent. I've inventoried BLM lands in MT, AZ, N. Dak., S. Dak., WY, CO, and ID. I'd have to say the 60 percent over-grazed/poor condition is about right for those states.

By the way, Ithaca and I have posted those numbers many times, with references.

 

[Michaelr]

Ithaca,

I didn't even know you could delete a post until you did it.

Just a little side note, Don't take this stuff to serious, So I have a little fun with posting, BIG DEAL.
This is the freakin internet.
If your skin is so thin that you can't take some ribbing, well sorry for you. Too Bad Booo Hooo, Cry me a river.

Now if we were in a public meeting of some sort, or a meeting at work, or someplace that actually matters. I would be totaly professional, polite, and respectful.

On the internet, like I said, Boo Hooo, cry me a river

 

[Ithaca 37]

mike, if that's the way you want to play your game don't bitch and whine about anything I do, you immature, lying little crybaby welfare rancher.

As you know, I didn't delete my topic because I was proved wrong, as you did. I deleted it because of MD4M's vicious foulmouthed post that was an embarrassment to Hunt Talk.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-04-2003 13:11: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Michaelr]

Oh sure, and it had nothing to do with the bad case of hoof in mouth that that thread gave you

Get real!! the only reason you deleted it was because you were caught in a lie

I deleted the thread I started because of two things,
#1, you were right

the topic had already been started.
#2, I decided that the name I gave the topic was a little mean spirited.
Like I said before. I come here to have fun, and give you a bad time, learn from, and discuss the topics that are of interest.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"mike, if that's the way you want to play your game don't bitch and whine about anything I do, you immature, lying little crybaby welfare rancher.

As you know, I didn't delete my topic because I was proved wrong, as you did. I deleted it because of MD4M's vicious foulmouthed post that was an embarrassment to Hunt Talk."

LMAO, Ithaca must of lived a sheltered little life to say I posted foulmouthed stuff.
Enlight us Ithaca ? No one can see what I posted about you because it hit so close to the truth that you delited it.
The only embarrassement to hunttalk is having someone posting links to anti-hunting,anti-meat eating ,anti-milk drinking ,pro-hate filled garbage.
If pointing that out is foulmouthed BOY HOWDY IM FOULMOUTHED,cause you are all that and more (camo-greenie) ,yep fits you a T!!!!! LOL