American prairie. What's the issue?

[hossblur]

"BLM approves controversial bison grazing plan for American Prairie | State & Regional | billingsgazette.com" https://billingsgazette.com/news/st...cle_7a15f4f1-1285-5a2e-a83a-2e59fcbdf80f.html


I'm a Utard, so this isn't in my immediate wheelhouse.

Cliff notes version of why this is controversial to cattle ranchers?

 

[Schaaf]

Basically a culture war issue with some groups never missing an opportunity to raise a few bucks over outrage.

 

[FI460]

Argument 1: Willing seller/ willing buyer preserving lands from development. Retaining some historic uses.

Argument 2: "Dark money" artificially inflating property values. Never know when the managing group will change the rules to potentially stop historic uses. Edit: and bison bad

 

[hossblur]

Dark money meaning raising property valuations, this raising taxes on existing ranches?

 

[Irrelevant]

Things on the left are bad.
The APR leans left.
Therefore it's bad.
It's a pretty simple policy, that's why it gains so much traction, people don't have to think.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"Save the cowboy!"

 

[hossblur]

I love on the Wasatch front.

As a kid, my nearest neighbor was 3/4 miles away. No stop light. Grocery was 3 towns away. I'm 48

Today my town has 30k people.

I like the idea of open range. I've read about the hunting aspect being shaky.

But I e read those things about Nature conservancy, and I've hunted waterfowl on nature conservancy ground for decades.

The controversy on AP, is confusing to us non locals

 

[Gerald Martin]

Dark money meaning raising property valuations, this raising taxes on existing ranches?

Agriculture and ranching tends to have slim profit margins in this arid country. As ranches either go out of business or aging landowners put properties up for sale, or for whatever reason properties are sold, low commodity prices won’t support working ranches to pay the going rate to acquire those properties and pay them off by grazing or agriculture.

This feeds a sense of resentment among some locals who feel like they can’t compete.

There’s also a fear of brucellosis transmission from bison to cattle.

There’s also a lot of opposition to anything that eats grass other than ranchers cattle.

 

[antlerradar]

I don't live close to APR, but I did see one of their first promotion films. Full of the look down their noses attitude of we know what is best and you hayseed hicks should take lessons from us. I am sure that went over big with the neighbors.

 

[BuzzH]

Rinella did a podcast with apr, it's worth a listen.

 

[BuzzH]

Agriculture and ranching tends to have slim profit margins in this arid country. As ranches either go out of business or aging landowners put properties up for sale, or for whatever reason properties are sold, low commodity prices won’t support working ranches to pay the going rate to acquire those properties and pay them off by grazing or agriculture.

This feeds a sense of resentment among some locals who feel like they can’t compete.

There’s also a fear of brucellosis transmission from bison to cattle.

There’s also a lot of opposition to anything that eats grass other than ranchers cattle.

Even though it was cattle that gave it bison...and elk.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I've read about the hunting aspect being shaky.

This privately owned property now allows ample opportunity for hunting, but the naysayers tell you it's "shaky" because there is no guarantee the opportunity will be "forever".
Rhetorical question: If a property owner allowed you to hunt on his place, but told you his son was taking over, so he was uncertain about your future hunting access, would you be critical of him and call it "shaky"? Or would you respect the private property right?

The hypocrisy is that many of those critical of APR are the staunch private property rights zealots.

don't live close to APR, but I did see one of there first promotion films. Full of the look down there noses attitude of we know what is best and you hayseed hicks should take lessons from us. I sure that went over big with the neighbors.

I don't live close either, but I've been there. I support the open lands and grasslands conservation and preservation ... and especially the public access, which I consider a privilege not a right. The promotions I see are not condescending, IMO. You and I must wear different lenses.

 

[antlerradar]

This privately owned property now allows ample opportunity for hunting, but the naysayers tell you it's "shaky" because there is no guarantee the opportunity will be "forever".
Rhetorical question: If a property owner allowed you to hunt on his place, but told you his son was taking over, so he was uncertain about your future hunting access, would you be critical of him and call it "shaky"? Or would you respect the private property right?

The hypocrisy is that many of those critical of APR are the staunch private property rights zealots.

I don't live close either, but I've been there. I support the open lands and grasslands conservation and preservation ... and especially the public access, which I consider a privilege not a right. The promotions I see are not condescending, IMO. You and I must wear different lenses.

My bet is they have realized there mistake and sanitized their promotions. The one I saw was presented to the Region 7 CAC back when I was a member. The other landowners on the CAC had the same impression as I.

 

[hossblur]

Rinella did a podcast with apr, it's worth a listen.

I caught that

 

[SwaggyD]

My bet they have realized there mistake and sanitized their promotions. The one I saw was presented to the Region 7 CAC back when I was a member. The other landowners on the CAC had the same impression as I.

When they were first starting to show up 20+ years ago, they had a totally different attitude and presentation/marketing than they do now. Will be interesting to see how it changes as time passes and they outbid any ranchers down there looking to expand.

 

[Straight Arrow]

When they were first starting to show up 20+ years ago, they had a totally different attitude and presentation/marketing than they do now. Will be interesting to see how it changes as time passes and they outbid any ranchers down there looking to expand.

Yes, it would if there were any wishing to expand. So far the sales have been by those wishing to retire or otherwise sell out. I don't believe there have been other serious bidders for the properties acquired by APR. (Unless maybe by those such as the Wilks bros.)
Part of the dynamics and changes for "generational" ranching operations in that area is that the current generation does not wish to ranch in most instances, so the ranch is sold for retirement funds or the younger generation just wants the money after Mom & Pop rancher are gone.

 

[mtmuley]

Yes, it would if there were any wishing to expand. So far the sales have been by those wishing to retire or otherwise sell out. I don't believe there have been other serious bidders for the properties acquired by APR. (Unless maybe by those such as the Wilks bros.)
Part of the dynamics and changes for "generational" ranching operations in that area is that the current generation does not wish to ranch in most instances, so the ranch is sold for retirement funds or the younger generation just wants the money after Mom & Pop rancher are gone.

Billionaires get what they want. mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

So, let me see if I have this right - govt can’t buy land, land conservation groups can’t buy land, people from out of state can’t buy land, only their three neighbors can buy the land. Gotcha.

 

[SwaggyD]

Yes, it would if there were any wishing to expand. So far the sales have been by those wishing to retire or otherwise sell out. I don't believe there have been other serious bidders for the properties acquired by APR. (Unless maybe by those such as the Wilks bros.)
Part of the dynamics and changes for "generational" ranching operations in that area is that the current generation does not wish to ranch in most instances, so the ranch is sold for retirement funds or the younger generation just wants the money after Mom & Pop rancher are gone.

Poor phrasing.

Will be interesting to see how it changes as time passes while they expand and they outbid any ranchers that cannot afford the inflated bid APR offers.

 

[VikingsGuy]

How is a bid “inflated”? Barring some type of collusion it is simply market price. Someone else placing a higher value on land is not “inflating” - it is called free markets.