All sportsmen not the kingmen

[belly-deep]

Limited draw units frequently produce disappointment. People think that just because they drew a “great” tag, a great animal is all but guaranteed. The reality is different for two reasons.

First is the incongruous nature of expectation and reality. I’ve been watching draw odds go down in MT for the last decade +. Units that were once a little bit above the average general tag are now nearly as hard to draw as the best units. I don’t think the draw odds for those units come close to accurately portraying the trophy quality of the unit, and drawing such a tag would be more of a curse than a blessing because hunters would be trying to reconcile expectations with a very different reality.

Second, you still have to hunt a wild animal and all the difficulties that go along with that. There’s been a handful of threads on here in recent memory about the Elkhorns bull tag. Considered to be one of the top or even the “best” bull tag in the state. Yet, guys that draw report a much tougher hunt than expected and some eat the tag. Part of that is due to the fact that to really learn a unit you need more than one season of hunting it, and draw units don’t afford that kind of familiarity. Part is due to the fact that you’re looking for an older age class animal, and those just aren’t stupid, even when hunting pressure is relatively light. Combine the two and it is an uphill struggle.

The OP sounds frustrated that expectations didn’t meet reality. I don’t think the rich are to blame for that. And I don’t think hunting in MT is as terrible as he states.

 

[u1299]

One thing you can do to improve or at least stabilize the big buck potential in public land areas is to make more of these areas walk in areas. Close roads altogether making access more difficult yet still available to anyone with a bit of initiative and a good pair of boots. I’m not advocating closing every road and turning the whole State into a wilderness area but I still find what I consider “good bucks” in these designated walk-in locations, not 180-190 class bucks everywhere though I’m still hoping to run into one, but some good bucks none the less.

 

[u1299]

Big bucks don’t get big in 3.5 or even 4.5 years so until there are conditions and or locations that allow some of them to reach 4.5 years or older you’ll never ever have big deer, that’s just a fact.

 

[u1299]

What do you consider big?

Ok I think you’re trying to set me up but I’ll give it a shot, IMO any deer over 170 typical is big. Boy I’m gonna catch hell from the folks who say a trophy is in the eye of the beholder! I don’t care what other people shoot or consider a trophy that’s their business and more power to them, but for me 170 and above is big. There are tons of other factors I consider, mass, width, height, shape etc but you asked the question and I gave you an answer.

 

[antlerradar]

The age old argument between opportunity and quality. The problem with opportunity is if your management is geared just for opportunity you tend to slip towards tragedy of the commons on public land and commercialization on private land and there is not to much opportunity in that.

 

[Killergaurd]

Maybe iam just bummed. Burnt 14 points and ate the tag. I know 170 deer are very rare but that was the goal. For many years thought man it would be great if every unit was limited entry until this year. Went elk hunting 1x. Got the fever. Seen 9 bulls. Could have shot 5 of them but the biggest was a small 5x6. Went after ghost bucks every single other time. It was fun. Maybe some of u are right. When my boys can hunt any public land animal is a trophy.

 

[Killergaurd]

Carnage2011. I know your dad Tim. Best boss i ever had. I took u and your dad hunting once. We seen like a 150 buck. Hows your dad doing. Hes a stud.

 

[belly-deep]

Killergaurd,

Don’t feel obligated to post the information, but I’m curious what unit you were hunting?

 

[Eric Albus]

The problem with Montana is that we are managed as an "opportunity state" for hunting deer/elk in general season areas. I keep hoping that the hunting will get so poor and the public so fed up that "we" can begin to demand the Dept. manages "our wildlife". The over-crowding is appalling, the kill everything with an antler on its head is disgusting.

The Dept. is going to have to take a reading and realize that we are now over 1m residents, over-crowding and hunter to hunter conflict is on the rise. I have talked with enough folks who hunted here in Reg.6 that there were some pretty serious incidents this fall. Is it worth someone losing their life over an elk or deer?

I have laid out plans here on this forum and to FWP ways to increase license sales, opportunity and decrease pressure on deer/elk in general season areas. Until enough of "us" are ready to get together and make a loud enough noise that Helena hears us things will remain the same old same old.

 

[The Hedgehog]

things will remain the same old same old.

If only it would remain the same old same old.. problem is it's getting worse, fast.

Too many guys plumb happy combat hunting for the last doe or forkie on public land.

 

[LuketheDog]

Once again, the perception thing.
I kinda' homed in more on the public land issue and his concern for his grandkid's opportunity.
Seems the big buck thing, which is really a matter of perception and personal choice, may have caught your attention.
I have stuff hanging on my walls that I like a lot. Never taped anything, never will. Don't particularly care for B&C, P&Y, SCI. But I do wish people would shoot fewer sub 4 year old muleys - just because I like big muley bucks.
Perceptions............

Yes, I agree with you, I think perception is the issue. And who doesn't like a big old muley buck? The point has been made above though, opportunity for tags and opportunity for huge animals tend to be mutually exclusive in most areas. It's probably a good thing too, or else ALL the units would start looking the same from a wildlife-quality perspective. I've watched Randy's shows enough to see him eat tags plenty of times for various reasons, without much complaint, and it's a good lesson I think folks tend to miss. It's hunting, it's not always killing. Someone said above: "Some things are on the decline. Some are as good as they’ve ever been." Sometimes, in order to have the most enjoyment and success on public land, in that order, you have to change your tactics to fit the circumstances.

 

[Killergaurd]

Belly-deep pm sent

 

[Carnage2011]

Carnage2011. I know your dad Tim. Best boss i ever had. I took u and your dad hunting once. We seen like a 150 buck. Hows your dad doing. Hes a stud.

Killergaurd,

Sent you a PM.

 

[Killergaurd]

Pm back to ya carnage2011