Africa, best bang for your buck if "horns" are your goal ?

[Europe]

A family member wants to go on a "horn" hunt and ask me to call some folks I have hunted with in the past.

The first thing that became obvious was that many of those who I have worked with in the past, have passed away )-;

The second thing was that a Stone hunt in Canada or a Desert Bighorn hunt in Mexico are now more expensive than Marco Polo hunts in Asia. It has been many years ago that I hunted Asia and the only other one I know here on the forum who has done so is Happymyles, but that is why I am posting this, as there may be others who have hunted Asia, recently.

If anyone here has hunted Asia recently, please let me know your opinion of doing so today please, as the Marco Polo is a tough hunt but a good one. And now cheaper than a Stone or Desert Bighorn hunt. The Markhor goat and Altai sheep hunts are also good hunts, but they are now ridiculously expensive.

So I am thinking she can hunt the Sable, Kudu, Gemsbok, Eland and Cape Buffalo for less than one Stone, Desert Bighorn, or Marco Polo hunt and bring home a nice variety of horns, plus an adrenaline hunt. ( the group of animals could be different, but for cost comparison purposes and for nice horns I arbitrary chose those Africa animals )

Ladies and Gentlemen, your thoughts would be appreciated, thank you.

 

[Letthemgrow]

While I have hunted Asia, it was for ibex, not sheep, so I'm not sure if my opinion is what you're looking for but I will give it a go.
The experience between Africa and Asia are completely different, as I assume you would agree.
She can do an African hunt and the lodging conditions can literally be "luxury" if she cares to book that type of trip.
I don't think that's really possible with an Asian hunt.
I do suspect the better sheep camps in Tadjikistan are probably more accustomed to providing a higher level of service than my Kyrg experience.
I also felt that Asia had more of an "adventure" feel to it. I've only hunted in Africa twice but neither plains game experience felt like Kyrgyzstan did.
Seeing the sunrise on the Tian Shan mountains was spectacular.
Using the outhouses at the base camps . . . not so much.

For value I think it's pretty tough to beat Africa. As you mentioned, sheep hunting prices have increased dramatically with no real slow down in sight.

 

[Europe]

While I have hunted Asia, it was for ibex, not sheep, so I'm not sure if my opinion is what you're looking for but I will give it a go.
The experience between Africa and Asia are completely different, as I assume you would agree.
She can do an African hunt and the lodging conditions can literally be "luxury" if she cares to book that type of trip.
I don't think that's really possible with an Asian hunt.
I do suspect the better sheep camps in Tadjikistan are probably more accustomed to providing a higher level of service than my Kyrg experience.
I also felt that Asia had more of an "adventure" feel to it. I've only hunted in Africa twice but neither plains game experience felt like Kyrgyzstan did.
Seeing the sunrise on the Tian Shan mountains was spectacular.
Using the outhouses at the base camps . . . not so much.

For value I think it's pretty tough to beat Africa. As you mentioned, sheep hunting prices have increased dramatically with no real slow down in sight.

Thank you sir. And you are correct on each point. And that is exactly what I wanted to know, as our hunts there were I believe the physically hardest hunts we ever encounter. I also believe it was the highest altitude we ever hunted. But it was a hard hunt from the the minute we left the airport until we returned and if I am reading your reply correctly, that has not changed. But, yes, it is an experience one does not forget. A different kind of beauty, but beautiful none the less. And if you want to stay focused on sheep ( and goat ) it is a place to hunt to add those horns to ones collection. To be honest when I was there I never felt comfortable, as a women, in addition to everything else and that might be one of the things that keeps me not wanting to send her there. Plus I am getting cheap in my old age and feel she can add more to her collection in Africa for the same cost as one animal in Asia. Thank you your post and information Letthemgrow

 

[Letthemgrow]

Thank you sir. And you are correct on each point. And that is exactly what I wanted to know, as our hunts there were I believe the physically hardest hunts we ever encounter. I also believe it was the highest altitude we ever hunted. But it was a hard hunt from the the minute we left the airport until we returned and if I am reading your reply correctly, that has not changed. But, yes, it is an experience one does not forget. A different kind of beauty, but beautiful none the less. And if you want to stay focused on sheep ( and goat ) it is a place to hunt to add those horns to ones collection. To be honest when I was there I never felt comfortable, as a women, in addition to everything else and that might be one of the things that keeps me not wanting to send her there. Plus I am getting cheap in my old age and feel she can add more to her collection in Africa for the same cost as one animal in Asia. Thank you your post and information Letthemgrow

It was my hardest physical hunt as well. I trained by hiking that summer and early fall at elevations between 7-10k. I was totalled gassed when hiking between 12-14k. To me, it felt like the difficulty difference was not linear, but exponential.
That was one of the only trips that my wife didn't accompany me on. The decision was based off feedback from other other hunters. Just our mutual decision.
In contrast, New Zealand was one of the best hunting/travel experiences we have ever had. But who knows when that will reopen to tourists.

I agree, the cost of one Asian ram could equal an incredible 2-3 weeks in Africa.
I hope she feels fortunate to have someone as experienced as you to help guide her.

 

[Bambistew]

I think a sheep hunt and Africa are on opposite ends of the hunt spectrum, although the adventure is about even.

I love to hunt sheep but if I had to chose, it would be Africa. I've been on a lot of sheep hunts so that itch has been scratched many years ago. Been to Africa twice and will be back. The variety of game, the countryside, the weather, etc is just so much more enjoyable. It takes a special type of person to enjoy wet boots being cold, working hard, not showering for weeks, and eating crappy food, all for the chance to kill a sheep. Most people who hunt sheep here go once and are done, like 75%... and they can go every year, but once is enough for most.

 

[Happy Myles]

Sheep hunting today is much better organized and fine tuned than decades ago when i was panting and sweating after the worlds great sheep. However, high altitude and tough country remains the same. It is also a very personal endeavor some hearty hunters enjoy some do not. I have a hunch she should start with a safari, everyone loves that. As you know, ones first African hunt is so intensely exciting, never to be repeated, i suggest a Tanzania adventure. But that is frightfully expensive. Next choice might be something like Zimbabwe or Mozambique. Do not despair, South Africa ranch/lodge or Namibia hunts are great too. As much as I have enjoyed them all, specialized hunts in places like the C.A.R., Cameroon, or Ethiopia should wait till later. One tip if she decides on South Africa allow some extra time for some sight seeing. For example, Victoria Falls is not a difficult addition. It is tempting to cram hunting animals into a few days and then head for home. The flights are long and wearisome. As long as you have gotten there, relax and see some country, you will not regret it. Kindest Regards

 

[Happy Myles]

Just an after thought. Call a reputable booking agent like, The Hunting Consortium, they will give you lots of good, current information.

 

[2rocky]

A question like that is what a "international Hunting Consultant" would be best to pose that question to. Meanwhile I just wish I had that problem to wrestle with.

A multi-generational history of conservation and hunting

The Atcheson family has been actively involved for over 62 years in the worldwide hunting community as principled representatives of ethical, fair-chase hunting

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[Europe]

It was my hardest physical hunt as well. I trained by hiking that summer and early fall at elevations between 7-10k. I was totalled gassed when hiking between 12-14k. To me, it felt like the difficulty difference was not linear, but exponential.
That was one of the only trips that my wife didn't accompany me on. The decision was based off feedback from other other hunters. Just our mutual decision.
In contrast, New Zealand was one of the best hunting/travel experiences we have ever had. But who knows when that will reopen to tourists.

I agree, the cost of one Asian ram could equal an incredible 2-3 weeks in Africa.
I hope she feels fortunate to have someone as experienced as you to help guide her.

We also enjoyed New Zealand. Wonderful country and very friendly people. Great place to hunt, fish--visit ! I have ask her to look at the horns of those animals I mentioned in my first post--and others. As an aside sir. If you decide to hunt Ibex again and your wife would like to accompany you, Spain is a country you might want to consider. We always enjoyed hunting them in Spain. Thank you for your response

I think a sheep hunt and Africa are on opposite ends of the hunt spectrum, although the adventure is about even.

I love to hunt sheep but if I had to chose, it would be Africa. I've been on a lot of sheep hunts so that itch has been scratched many years ago. Been to Africa twice and will be back. The variety of game, the countryside, the weather, etc is just so much more enjoyable. It takes a special type of person to enjoy wet boots being cold, working hard, not showering for weeks, and eating crappy food, all for the chance to kill a sheep. Most people who hunt sheep here go once and are done, like 75%... and they can go every year, but once is enough for most.

Excellent synopsis and your right. I loved being in the areas where sheep live, as well as the hunt, but our hunts in Africa were always special. And you nailed it--the variety of game, the countryside, the weather, the different countries, the different customs, the music, the food, the people, the sights--I wish I could go back, one more time (-: The short answer : I agree---on both points



Thank you gentlemen for your responses, it is appreciated

 

[2rocky]

Europe, as a tangent, my only experience with Africa is from reading Capstick, Ruark and Hemingway which I think is akin to someone who has never been out West having only read Louis L'Amour.

I'm afraid I would be disappointed ...

 

[Bambistew]

One thing I forgot to mention is almost every sheep hunter I have ever met is more than willing to go home after they kill a sheep like the next day and can't wait to get out of the mountains. I've yet to meet someone that wouldn't kill to extend their time in Africa.

 

[Europe]

Sheep hunting today is much better organized and fine tuned than decades ago when i was panting and sweating after the worlds great sheep. However, high altitude and tough country remains the same. It is also a very personal endeavor some hearty hunters enjoy some do not. I have a hunch she should start with a safari, everyone loves that. As you know, ones first African hunt is so intensely exciting, never to be repeated, i suggest a Tanzania adventure. But that is frightfully expensive. Next choice might be something like Zimbabwe or Mozambique. Do not despair, South Africa ranch/lodge or Namibia hunts are great too. As much as I have enjoyed them all, specialized hunts in places like the C.A.R., Cameroon, or Ethiopia should wait till later. One tip if she decides on South Africa allow some extra time for some sight seeing. For example, Victoria Falls is not a difficult addition. It is tempting to cram hunting animals into a few days and then head for home. The flights are long and wearisome. As long as you have gotten there, relax and see some country, you will not regret it. Kindest Regards

Thank you for taking the time to respond, it is appreciated--AND--you are correct about Tanzania--even Zimbabwe or Mozambique, but you know me and you know if I have anything to do with it, it will be Namibia But maybe Tanzania. Without a doubt she will visit Victoria Falls, Table mtn, etc regardless of where she hunts, as you are so right ! I am thinking a month --3 week hunt and one week sight seeing ---if she goes to Africa but that is still up in the air.

Of all people you will appreciate this. Her words " So if I chose Africa which will save money, can the money we save by not going to Asia be used for a double rifle. You once told me that if your going to hunt Cape Buffalo in Africa, it has to be done with a double "

Europe, as a tangent, my only experience with Africa is from reading Capstick, Ruark and Hemingway which I think is akin to someone who has never been out West having only read Louis L'Amour.

I'm afraid I would be disappointed ...

and---if you read my response to Happymyles----she may have also been reading those books

oops sorry---also thank you of your 1st response and suggestion

One thing I forgot to mention is almost every sheep hunter I have ever met is more than willing to go home after they kill a sheep like the next day and can't wait to get out of the mountains. I've yet to meet someone that wouldn't kill to extend their time in Africa.

Excellent point sir. AND, for me-----you can double or triple that feeling ( about wanting to leave as soon as the sheep was down ) when we were in Asia and this may be my reluctance to send her. And letthemgrow's post about his wife not accompanying him has not helped change my mind

Thank you of your input sir

 

[Happy Myles]

Europe, I like Namibia, have hunted there four 21 day safaris. just have not been there is recent years. It was still Southwest Africa when I first chased elephant there in what was then Bushmanland. I have hunted the old Caprivi Strip from one end to the other. Once picked up a huge tembo track on the Botswana border and slept on his trail all the way to the Angola line. I have some great tales of my time with the bushmen. My first trip I arrived at the Windhoek airport in the middle of the night and it was spitting snow.

 

[Randi]

With all due respect, I disagree. Yes, Africa will provide more horns for the same amount of money, will provide more "mental" safety, would be an easier hunt physically, as well a provide better accommodations . But she can do Africa when she is in her 40,s, 50, 60,s 70,s even 80,s as you know April, from personal experience

But the hunt for the Marco Polo will never be forgotten and not just because of the beautiful trophy horns.

Is she likes to "hunt" and a "challenge", the hunt for the Marco Polo will provide that and then some. Plus the mountains there provide a different kind of beauty but beautiful none the less. The ride up on the horses, then the climb, as well as the altitude, will kick your butt. Plus the accomendatiosn at the top, even at base camp, are rustic at best, but if one is looking for good accommodations, reserve an over the water bungalow in Fiji.

April, I am told that you know Krisiti, call her. She was there only three for four years ago with 4 or 5 young females with her.

I would recommend Tajikistan for better trophy horns and you might get lucky and see a Markhor, even luckier and see a snow leopard.

 

[rjthehunter]

My grandpa hunted Africa, he enjoyed it. But the real adventure was in his sheep hunts. Tajikistan for Marco Polo was one of his favorite hunts he went on. It was an adventure just getting to the mountain. He was within a few miles of the Afghanistan border when the US invaded back in 2001. He was supposed to go with a friend, but his friend backed out when the turmoil really got bad in the middle east. My grandpa stuck with it and went and did the hunt by himself instead of with a friend. He ended up killing an absolutely beautiful Marco Polo and had a hell of a story to go along with it.

Africa is different. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go someday, but it's a lot more mainstream. While is still a good adventure, the road less traveled has always been a bigger adventure for myself.

 

[geetar]

My grandpa hunted Africa, he enjoyed it. But the real adventure was in his sheep hunts. Tajikistan for Marco Polo was one of his favorite hunts he went on. It was an adventure just getting to the mountain. He was within a few miles of the Afghanistan border when the US invaded back in 2001. He was supposed to go with a friend, but his friend backed out when the turmoil really got bad in the middle east. My grandpa stuck with it and went and did the hunt by himself instead of with a friend. He ended up killing an absolutely beautiful Marco Polo and had a hell of a story to go along with it.

Africa is different. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go someday, but it's a lot more mainstream. While is still a good adventure, the road less traveled has always been a bigger adventure for myself.

Awesome story about your grandpa with the Marco Polo. That would be a bucket list hunt if I was richer. It’s out of the question for me. Still love hearing about them though.

Isn’t saying Africa is mainstream kinda like saying North America is mainstream? There is a lot of difference in Texas high fence hunting and a bighorn sheep hunt in the Rockies. Seems it would be a lot of difference as well in hunting fenced operations in South Africa vs being in Tanzania or Zimbabwe. I haven’t been so maybe someone who has can help with this. It’s more of a question than a criticism of what you said.

 

[Randi]

Awesome story about your grandpa with the Marco Polo. That would be a bucket list hunt if I was richer. It’s out of the question for me. Still love hearing about them though.

Isn’t saying Africa is mainstream kinda like saying North America is mainstream? There is a lot of difference in Texas high fence hunting and a bighorn sheep hunt in the Rockies. Seems it would be a lot of difference as well in hunting fenced operations in South Africa vs being in Tanzania or Zimbabwe. I haven’t been so maybe someone who has can help with this. It’s more of a question than a criticism of what you said.

good point, however "I think" what he meant was that Africa is more of a mainstream hunt than Asia. I know several more who have hunted Africa than I do who have hunted Asia. People talk about Africa more, more books have been written about hunting Africa, etc. I think that is what he meant.

April, Happymyles , others here are far more knowledgeable than I about which country in Africa provides the best hunts. Tanzania is one of the best. April and my grandparents prefers Namibia as it is the only country that allows one to hunt the "Classic Five" -- Rhino, Elephant, Lion, Leopard, and Buffalo. Plus Hippo, Croc, and Cheetah. as well as a large variety of plains game. Anyway, my point is everybody on the forum knows the classic five I mentioned, but it is possible not everyone knows the Marco Polo or Markhor---But I may be wrong. Just my thoughts as I wait for my ride

 

[geetar]

good point, however "I think" what he meant was that Africa is more of a mainstream hunt than Asia. I know several more who have hunted Africa than I do who have hunted Asia. People talk about Africa more, more books have been written about hunting Africa, etc. I think that is what he meant.

April, Happymyles , others here are far more knowledgeable than I about which country in Africa provides the best hunts. Tanzania is one of the best. April and my grandparents prefers Namibia as it is the only country that allows one to hunt the "Classic Five" -- Rhino, Elephant, Lion, Leopard, and Buffalo. Plus Hippo, Croc, and Cheetah. as well as a large variety of plains game. Anyway, my point is everybody on the forum knows the classic five I mentioned, but it is possible not everyone knows the Marco Polo or Markhor---But I may be wrong. Just my thoughts as I wait for my ride

That makes sense. I may have totally read that wrong. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Happy Myles]

Randi,
Horses!? Just joking. Long ago, the last time I was inTajikistan no one was using horses, because I asked why no horses. response was not enough feed and the altitude was hard on them at those elevations. As I recall lower down early in the journey we used yaks a bit. Our high camp was, I think, 15,000 feet. A couple of show off young men were performing their prowess and physical conditions by loping around camp and up the sides of the mountain to glass. Both came down with altitude sickness and had to be taken off the mountain without shooting rams. Now days there are drugs like Diamox, portable hyperbaric bags, specialized vehicles, and permanent camps in some areas to aid these conditions. Do not get me wrong i love hunting the worlds great sheep. All great adventures. If she is excited about doing it go for it. If brand new to hunting might suggest an easier, just as romantic adventure like Tanzania. Your point suggesting hunting sheep while young is a good one. Most of us could not afford it when in our best of prime. I always took green tea and lots of honey it seemed to help me at altitude. Kindest Regards

 

[rjthehunter]

That makes sense. I may have totally read that wrong. Thanks for the reply.

Randi hit the nail on the head! It's more off the beaten path if that makes sense. I don't want to say everyone goes to Africa, but big game hunters with money go to Africa, Asia is a lesser known destination for a pretty wild hunt!

My grandpa also did the Leopard, Cape Buffalo, Gator, Hippo, and Lion. He tried for Elephant a couple times but they weren't able to find one big enough.

They did find some poachers while elephant hunting one time. That's a good story...

I don't want to be rich. I just want to make enough money to do the hunts I've dreamed of doing since I was a little shaver, thanks to my grandpa sharing his countless stories and trophies!