RUT JUNKEY
Well-known member
Nice spook.
I think its how we got the guy in charge this time, all of the "handout" recipients got out and voted . . .they knew he would take care of them. 
Access to private lands that receive public subsidies?
- Thread starter SFC B
- Start date
Nice spook.
I think its how we got the guy in charge this time, all of the "handout" recipients got out and voted . . .they knew he would take care of them. Found this link to have some interesting data, especially Tables 7 and 8.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-expenditures.aspx#26636
For Americans, the percentage of disposable personal income spent on food in 1929 was 23.4% vs. 9.8% in 2011. One could easily argue that the subsidies being discussed here could be part of the reason for that downward trend.
Just think how much harder it would be to put money back for a future moose hunt if one had to spend nearly 1/4 of their income on food compared to just under 1/10?
http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-expenditures.aspx#26636
For Americans, the percentage of disposable personal income spent on food in 1929 was 23.4% vs. 9.8% in 2011. One could easily argue that the subsidies being discussed here could be part of the reason for that downward trend.
Just think how much harder it would be to put money back for a future moose hunt if one had to spend nearly 1/4 of their income on food compared to just under 1/10?
RUT JUNKEY
Well-known member
Im just going to throw this out there. . .I'm smack dab in the middle of farm country, my uncle has a huge farm, some of my best friends are big farmers, so, I'm all for farming because I like to eat! Having said that, Bigshooter I'm not sure where your from, but around here. . .the farmers are driving $60,000 quad cab trucks, and using $300,000 combines, huge planters, the best of the best! So, the "poor pity me farmer" thing doesn't fly when that is the case. I'm sure the money didn't come from subsidies. Some of the arguments on here are really laughable though. . .no guarantees in farming, or any job for that matter, we just have to suck it up and go on.
Rut, don't forget to ask those farmers with the expensive equipment how much longer they have to pay their bank for it. It's usually borrowed money that bought the stuff. Then they have to hope for a good harvest to get some money to pay for it. Very few guys can actually AFFORD to just go out and buy something by simply writing a check. The bank owns it and the farmer makes his payments. AFTER a harvest and selling some grain. No "regular" paychecks in farming.
SFC B
Well-known member
Found this link to have some interesting data, especially Tables 7 and 8.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-expenditures.aspx#26636
For Americans, the percentage of disposable personal income spent on food in 1929 was 23.4% vs. 9.8% in 2011. One could easily argue that the subsidies being discussed here could be part of the reason for that downward trend.
Just think how much harder it would be to put money back for a future moose hunt if one had to spend nearly 1/4 of their income on food compared to just under 1/10?
Really? You had to go after the moose hunt? That is just dirty pool there mister!! :hump:
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rhomas
Banned
Rut, the "farmers" I've known that bought that expensive equipment, usually farm thousands of acres, and many of them end up having that same equipment sold for pennies on the dollar at liquidation auctions after they lose their ass! BTW, have you priced a decent used combine or tractor lately? I looked at a used two row cultivator/planter recently, and couldn't afford $4500.00 for something I would have to spend another $1000.00 on to get in perfect operating condition. Think about what a 4, 6, or 8 row set-up costs new, for the guys who are planting 3 or 4 thousand acres of leased land, and it requires those big outfits to farm that type of operation, they damn sure couldn't farm it with a 2 row set up!!!!!!!!!!
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SFC B
Well-known member
RJ, don't forget that if you drive through the country in IN and check out the driveways/barns that you are very likely to find LARGE motorhomesand campers. Surprisingly many of those motorhomes and accompanying cars are plated in FLORIDA? Why? Because these "poor" farmers are snow-birding in FL and evading even more Indiana taxes by plating their cars and rigs in FL at a much lower rate. My first job out of college was for the county in Hendricks county and I lost count of the number of times I saw this. When I brought it up to my buddies at the Sheriff's Department (it is ILLEGAL) they told me that they were told in no uncertain terms "hands off the farmers" guess why? Entire county council were farmers
$300K for a combine these days is actually a bit 'low rent'...
Many I know are buying the implements but leasing the tractors. The past few years (last year a bit of an exception) have been very good for farmers. Had one a few years back tell me, "If you're not making good money farming right now, you're doing it wrong!" That being said, many, many family farms were lost in Indiana during the early '80s. Largely due to a culmination of bad weather and worse prices. Many of the larger operations today are what they are because of the farms they bought when neighbors went under. Most farmers I know are too tight with their money to play a game of penny ante poker, but they gamble on a large scale every year.
Just a purely hypothetical statement. I did not name names...
SFC B
Well-known member
First, even the fact that you had to make your last statement goes DIRECTLY to what RJ pointed out.
Next, you are getting your ENTITLEMENTS mixed up. Unlike farmers who receive government handouts (which are by definition ENTITLEMENT programs) I know that I am not entitled to anything. The Ag guys arguments are not based in good reasoning at all....it all ends up being reduced to emotional and weak assertions. Without consumers farmers have no business. Without farmers consumers(at least those that hunt) would not have SOME of their food. Farmers do NO FAVORS for us as consumers...it is a busniess and they PROFIT from us. PLUS they PROFIT from our tax money. I work for my money and what I make is what I have to support my family (as with most of our country). The government doesn't give most of us guarranted extra income and insurance on our work/business ventures. Farmers who take subs DO have GUARANTEES from Uncle Sugar...now the rest of us, not so much. I don't know anyone on food stamps, my friends and I support ourselves without handouts. However, those folks that do get food stamps or even AFDC get help from the government simply to live at a minimal level (I still think we would be better served in accomplishing this in a different manner outside of the tax structure), their ENTITLEMENTS are not like farmers....they are not ENTITLEMENTS to support multi-million dollar business ventures AND to keep them living on large tracts of land. Allowing access to a large tract of business property is an entirely different matter than your emotional "going into someone's home" attempted illustration.
Nemont
Well-known member
RJ, don't forget that if you drive through the country in IN and check out the driveways/barns that you are very likely to find LARGE motorhomesand campers. Surprisingly many of those motorhomes and accompanying cars are plated in FLORIDA? Why? Because these "poor" farmers are snow-birding in FL and evading even more Indiana taxes by plating their cars and rigs in FL at a much lower rate. My first job out of college was for the county in Hendricks county and I lost count of the number of times I saw this. When I brought it up to my buddies at the Sheriff's Department (it is ILLEGAL) they told me that they were told in no uncertain terms "hands off the farmers" guess why? Entire county council were farmers
So now we know why you have a problem with farmers, in your mind they are all already criminals, no proof that anyone committed a crime but you have judged them off of hearsay that you believe they are criminals.
No emotions in your argument? Please, you are whining that somebody gets more than you do.
End the subsidies TODAY, I have zero issue with, I am down with stopping subsidizing people but you still are hung up on something that have zero to do with each other. Supposedly you don't like big government unless you can use that big government to force another government entity (the States) to require access because big government makes payments to farmers. So in reality you love big government as long as it is to your benefit but no body else should get a subsidized.
Again I don't understand why you don't cash in on appreciating land that you claim is priced higher because of the subsidies given to farmers. No consideration of record commodity prices, or the printing presses churning out Trillions of new dollars, some how that measly $12 billion in a $16 TRILLION economy is forcing you out of the market for land.
I don't care what anybody else has been able to purchase, there are many people who have more and good for them, lot's have a lot less than I do and I hope they can make more for themselves and their families.
If you envy the lifestyle then why not go to a bank, risk the capital, enjoy the all the benefits of owning land, you can let somebody else farm it these days and make the big bucks. You have yet to explain why you cannot afford to chase assets that are appreciating over 14% per year. If it is so simple why not just get in and stop worrying about people that can afford new vehicles and recreational vehicles. You would be much happier.
Nemont
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RUT JUNKEY
Well-known member
I totally agree Dave, the banks are the ones in control. Im sure some of the incorporated big farms can write alot of those things off, but, the average guy is at the banks mercy for sure.
RUT JUNKEY
Well-known member
$300K for a combine these days is actually a bit 'low rent'...
The past few years (last year a bit of an exception) have been very good for farmers. Had one a few years back tell me, "If you're not making good money farming right now, you're doing it wrong!" That being said, many, many family farms were lost in Indiana during the early '80s. Largely due to a culmination of bad weather and worse prices. Many of the larger operations today are what they are because of the farms they bought when neighbors went under. Most farmers I know are too tight with their money to play a game of penny ante poker, but they gamble on a large scale every year.
point well taken 1PT, Im sure it was a low guess, heck I saw a planter the other day that looked as if it may have been $300,000. . .about 4 rounds with that giant and he could plant a ton of acres. . .it was unreal! I also agree with the small family farms being bought out in the '80's. . .and most of the big name farmers over here, like you stated, had a little extra money and bought up all the small parcels that went belly up. I just can't fault a guy for having the balls to roll the dice and buy land after he watched his friends and family go under farming the same ground. I spent most of the late 70's and all of the '80's helping at my uncles farm. . .it was work for sure, but it made you appreciate the work you did. Maybe we should require every kid to spend a little time at the farm/ranch . . .maybe they would learn what work and respect are.
smarandr
Well-known member
sheff
Member
So SFC B, what will you do in 20 years when all the small farmers are gone, large coprorations take over the food supply like they have the oil industry and the meat packing industry, and you have to pay $10.00 for a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk?
And please don't reply while your mouth is full..
And please don't reply while your mouth is full..
sheff
Member
and you never did respond to my post that said the farmer is limited to $40,000 per year......
SFC B
Well-known member
In deference to smarandr this will be my last post as it is obvious that it is to the point of an "Is vs Is not" affair.
This is what I will say. I don't have any problem with anyone per se. I have a couple of close friends that farm and this is how they do it. First, they do it without subs. Second both of them were fortunate enough to have inherited land (150 for one and 97 for the other). Third, they realized their limitations and both decided to raise beef cattle while leasing the remainder of their land. They both have fulltime jobs (heavy equipment operator/truck driver and thermo-plastic press operator) and STILL take care of their places and livestock. Early in the morning and after work. They work hard and take no handouts. They are the folks I admire.
I have a problem with folks who take handouts from me, especially when they in turn make money off of me and then expect me to be grateful for the privildge of supporting them. The statement about the RVs was not hearsay in any fashion. It is what I personally witnessed doesn't have anything to do with the issue of subs bu does goes to the standard of living/wealth these folks are living at while many of them are taking handouts. And the proof of the criminal activity of those engaging in the activities I described is the behavior itself. Here is the Indiana Code that addresses the issue and it is clear as a bell http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title9/ar18/ch2.html
As for folks having more than I do.....that is great for them and there is a looooonnngg list of those folks. I am happy for anyone that works hard and makes their own way. I do, as I have stated before, have a problem with folks who make money suckling from Uncle Sugar's teat without repaying taxpayers. Don't take tax money and I could give a flyin rat's ass what you have or how you use it. Take any of my money to do it and it becomes my business. But, by all means END ALL SUBSDIES NOW and this discussion is moot (I would love that). No subs and no govt interests in property at all. I am ALL for that.
You don't understand why I don't "take advantage" of the oppotunity to buy land at greatly inflated prices? Well, it is pretty simple really. I don't have several (or even one) million dollars to buy even a small piece (100-150acres) of land and there aren't any banks I know of lining up to drop millions on a "non-farmer". I get that the 12 billion is not a large portion of the budget but it is still 12 BILLION TAXPAYER DOLLARS!!! If you have no problem financing others that is your choice, but it will never be mine. As for states having no interest with what happens with fed dollars apparently you have never heard of pubic works projects, law enforcemet, fire protection or many entitlement programs where states administer fed monies disbursed to them. While it is convenient to wish to keep them separate from your point of view is could be easily accomplished an without cost easily by requiring a tiny portion of profits(only profits) from each recipient be used for admin costs. In the end, don't worry I am happy....hunting season is coming.
Sheff- I don't really understand your point about the 40K a year....if that is what it is, so be it. That is still 40K too much an 40K more than other buiness owners get, let alone those of us contributing to that payment. Entitlements and handouts are just plain bad in my (and a large potion of te country's) opinion.
As for you other post....hhmmm? Have you ever been to another country or even seen the prices of what you mention. Comparative to the rest of the civilized world our oil and meat prices are dirt cheap,especially if you remove our taxes. Try buying a gallon of gas or lb of meat in Euope, home of the subsidies, and see how that works out for you. Efficiency leads to LOWER prices, not higher. Oh I guessed you missed Econ class, sorry.
My intent in starting thi thread was to start and participate in this debate. At the very least I am sure that it stimulated thought. I wish the best of luck to eveyone in the draw and upcoming seasons.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
I'm thinking your subsidized education was a waste of taxpayer dollars. Can we get a refund?
Why are there so many posters on this site with such an anti landowner mentality like SFC B?
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