Been killing critters with tipped bullets for a long time. The ones with white tips. Killed a bunch with Core-Lokts and others before that. Killed a few at longer ranges also with a tipped bullet. So Don, keep your mouth shut about tipped bullets. mtmuley
7mm-08 for elk with 140gr Accubonds
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Colorado hunter Tim
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I guess I don't really know how to answer that. I'm really new to reloading and different calibers. I have had the opportunity to shoot out to 400 or 500 yards at elk and bear. So I was just asking. The bullet might not bounce off, but it could certainly lack penetration as I previously stated.
Don Fischer
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Excuse me. You would make a good salesman for tipped bullet's. Fact is you admit to killing a lot of animals with core lokt bullet's. How could you do that without the tip that you think kills? Most everything about bullet's is little more than opinion, even what you write! Hard to believe isn't it! I have been hunting about 50yrs using Hornady spire point and inter lock and Speer hot core bullet's. I seriously doubt that you have ever killed an animal any deader with your tipped bullet.
Don Fischer
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Most likely the 140gr accubond at 500yds even would penetrate sufficiently to get the job done. Accubond bullet's are designed for hunting. But it is possible for any bullet to fail! Then of course if your not sure your bullet will do the job, don't fire it! But I think if you do your part right, the bullet will do it's part right. A bullet might fail, certainly but then you might also blow the shot! I think this 500 yd shooting get's far to much attention, seem's like most people think they can do it. Lead core bullet's have a velocity window where they operate as designed. According to Nosler the accubond is designed to maintain 70%of it's original weight. But not sure what the window for velocity is. The faster the bullet hit's, the more weight it sheds. And of course the slower the bullet hit's, the less weight it sheds. In the first case, velocity case's penetration and weight loss. In the second weight cause's penetration and velocity reduce's weight loss. Regardless of range or bullet construction, bullet placement kills!
Red_7.08
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Thanks for all the info. I’ve got some 150gr TTSX I plan to load for my 7mm-08 for an elk hunt next year. I’ve only hunted whitetail with it and I get a little nervous about needing an.30 cal gun for elk but this makes me feel better.
Your rants about tipped bullets us stupid. mtmuley
David58
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Do you have a reason plastic tipped bullets are inferior? Or is it merely preference (which is ok)?
Don doesn't know anything about tipped bullets. mtmuley
Don Fischer
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I do use Hornady V-Max bullet's. Out of my 243 at 200yds they go through a paper target and 2" foam back and come completely apart. Proof on the ground behind the target! I did try some for a friend a couple years ago and couldn't get them to shoot well at all. With that one it could well have been the bullet. 7mm mag and 150 gr Hornady. Bullet was to long and had to be seated deeply on the case. Something that has occurred to me is when the bullet hit's, that tip has to go somewhere and some where is right back into the bullet. When Nosler first came out with the plastic tip bullet there were a ton of report's of the bullet breaking up on contact, sort of like the tip being drives rapidly back into the core. But the two places I think they work well is the explosive type varmint bullet and monolithic bullet's. I fired HP bullet's into newspaper years ago and most of then closed up the point and bent! Take the similar TSX type bullet and put a plastic tip on it and the bullet will open every time and being a solid copper or gilding metal, will not blow up. J.J. Hack did some write ups years ago on Greaybeard about the TSX in Africa. He found that sometime's they would lose petals but that was not a big concern. What was a concern was the tip closing and the bullet turning into a solid. Winchester was the first I saw claim that one reason for the plastic tip was to ensure the bullet would open! What seem's to me to be the point of the tip in other that the two case's I mentioned is to improve the BC for long range shooting. Shooting at long range say beyond 400 yds the velocity of the bullet has probably lost enough that maybe the damage to the bullet out there is not as bad as it might be at say 200yds. But people were shooting and killing things way out there long before the plastic tip came around. But those bullet's are said not to fly as flat with their poor BC. Probably true. But any bullet shot to 400 yds cannot be called flat shooting with a straight face. Changing the drop of a bullet from say 30" to 20" doesn't make the bullet any better. You get to those ranges and the determining factor is not gonna be a plastic tip on a bullet but the skill of the shooter. Yet seem's to me that idea of the tip making a flatter shooting bullet at long range is way over played but has been bought right up by wanna be long range shooter's.
BuzzH
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Can't say for sure how many big game animals I've shot with accubonds and ballistic tips, but I can say for sure how many elk I've killed with a 140 accubond from my 7-08...19. Shots were a close of 30 yards to max of 622. I've never experienced one blowing up like Fischer here is claiming happens. Just has not been me experience, and I believe the accubond behave nearly identical to a partition, or perhaps retain slightly more bullet weight than a partition.
I've shot lots of animals with lots of different bullets and there is no question the accubonds out perform a lot of them. No debate one of the top few hunting bullets ever.
I've shot lots of animals with lots of different bullets and there is no question the accubonds out perform a lot of them. No debate one of the top few hunting bullets ever.
MTLabrador
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It almost seems that Hornady V-Max were never intended to be a big game bullet. Who’d have thunk it....
140 grain Accubonds in the .270 have never given me anything short of excellent performance on elk.
Don Fischer
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No they weren't. But out hunting coyote's during deer season several years ago got a shot at a nice doe with that 75gr V-Max. Placed it right and the deer simply fell down! Take an old Hornady SX in a 222 and shoot a deer properly in the head and it will simply fall down. Nobody said tiped bullet's won't kill, of course they will. Whatever anyone, even Mt Dork, say's about premium bullet's can also be said about cup and core bullet's if they are properly chosen. The tip in most case's is little more than a selling point for people that believe BC is everything!
Hey Don, am I MT Dork? if so, plenty of other dorks on here that shoot tipped bullets and know way more than you do about them. And guess what? Some of the highest BC bullets out there don't have a tip. There goes that theory. Keep digging. mtmuley
VAspeedgoat
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Isn't the point of the tip to initiate expansion? As I understand it, the tip on a ttsx is to expand faster than a tsx. The bullet coming apart has to do with the way the rest of the bullet is made. Consequently a varmint bullet nearly blows up and a controlled expansion/bonded bullet holds together better. With the years of data and experience with accbonds, it's amazing anyone would question it.
I guess some guys are still waiting for the partition fad to go away too, lol
I guess some guys are still waiting for the partition fad to go away too, lol
Don Fischer
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Actually yes and no. It start's expansion in the monolithic solid copper bullet's. Winchester has admitted that in some of their advertising. Put that tip in a fragile bullet and they simply explode when the tip is driven back into the core of the bullet. Another thing they do is protect a lead tip from being disfigured in the magazine. There's also the claim that they increase the BC of a hunting bullet. Match bullet's are normally HP's and high BC's. Add the plastic tip and the BC goes up because suddenly the bullet get's longer. I think you'd find that match shooter's only shoot HP bullet's and I strongly suspect to keep bullet tips from being deformed in a magazine if they are actually using a rifle with a magazine. The increasing of the BC doesn't amount to a lot to me. It won't come into play till way after any range I would shoot at! Ever to about 400yds and maybe a bit more it's just added weight. Want a surprise? Go through your manual and find the high BC hunting bullet's. Now compare them to lead tip bullet's and run what you get through a computer to see the performance difference. Relatively small difference's in BC, like 50 to 75 make very little difference. In the early 70's Speer brought out the mag tip bullet. To justify it they showed a high speed photo of a bullet leaving a rifle barrel, the tip was gone! They said friction going through the air melts the tip off. May well be as the old Hornady SX bullet's could not be driven past 3500 FPS or they came apart flying through the air. Friend had a 22-250 and we trid it with some 50 gr SX's and that did come apart in the air. Make's me question the need of a tip to stop deformation of the lead tip. What the tip would do is maintain the original stated BC which will do most people no good at all until the bullet is well past a long ways past 300-400yds. But that tip does really blow up a soft bullet. I think Nosler found that out with that tipped hunting bullet they originally came out with. Lot of bullet's blown up on the side of animals and not penetrating. And then bullet's that did were claimed to have done massive damage inside the animal, some guy's really liked that! Every cross section I've see of a bullet with that tip has shown the the stem under the tip does not reach the lead. That means the tip get's a flying start at the core. I'm pretty sure that with a hard core and/or a thick jacket it may not make a difference. But for normal use I can only see a tiped bullet as a sales point other than in fragile varmint bullet's and monolithic bullet's.
Many shooter's are sucker's for thing's like that. They somehow think that at long range, which most never shoot it will give them some advantage. The only advantage shooting at long range that works is not a tipped bullet but learning to shoot at long range. It's a whole different game. As was so plainly put earlier, plastic tip's kill. Unfortunately that guy never did explain how that works! One problem I ran into with plastic tip bullet's was in a 7mm mg. I was loading 150gr bullet's with them for him and with that tip on it I had to seat the bullet deeper into the case so the round would fit in the magazine! I ended up loading him some 150gr lead spitzer's and they killed his elk that year just fine! There is no magic in bullet's, they will all kill very well if properly chosen.
Many shooter's are sucker's for thing's like that. They somehow think that at long range, which most never shoot it will give them some advantage. The only advantage shooting at long range that works is not a tipped bullet but learning to shoot at long range. It's a whole different game. As was so plainly put earlier, plastic tip's kill. Unfortunately that guy never did explain how that works! One problem I ran into with plastic tip bullet's was in a 7mm mg. I was loading 150gr bullet's with them for him and with that tip on it I had to seat the bullet deeper into the case so the round would fit in the magazine! I ended up loading him some 150gr lead spitzer's and they killed his elk that year just fine! There is no magic in bullet's, they will all kill very well if properly chosen.
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MTLabrador
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I think we all understand that you prefer cup and core bullets without a tip. Glad they work for you.
No shit. Gotta leave the naïve alone. mtmuley
SaskHunter
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Good quality projos and an accurate loads/shots can take down anything within reasonable ranges.
