60 Minutes Wyoming Green Energy Segment

[Deleted member 28227]

Totally off topic, sorta, but I don't understand why all of our basic utilities aren't gov't ran. Not necessarily at a federal level but at a local level. Our PUD is excellent for power, fiber, and water/waste water (where it's provided). We get local control, profits are pumped back into your system that you jointly own with the rest of your community. The focus is on customer owned value vs maximizing profits for shareholders.

But apparently it's pretty common around the rest of the country to have private companies in charge of utilities?

DTE is apparently one of the largest lobbyists in the state…

 

[Keep on]

My counter is that you need less of a stick if there's no incentive to make a profit, you just might- hold your breath - do what's right without the threat of regulation.

They delivery safe drinking water, with a multitude of redundancies that far exceed the regulatory requirements, to ensure that safety and reliability, because it's the right thing to do. Because we the customers request it, and because it turns out it's not that much more expensive if you don't have to make money for shareholders.

But clearly Flint didn't feel the same. So I shouldn't paint such a rosy picture with such a broad brush.

Agreed there are good and bad examples of all systems. A fully regulated utility company is IMO, the best way to go. Still operating for a profit, but if the public really wants cleaner energy, water, etc, they can get rates adjusted to cover their capital projects and operating expenses.
Unregulated, has imo been nothing but a profit making scheme where people adding no value to the system are sucking dollars off the grid while unregulated generators are not worried about reliability and sustainability of their assets, only this quarters spread sheet.

 

[Forkyfinder]

i always assumed they all largely functioned like Xcel Energy, a hybrid, a regulated monopoly overseen by some sort of government commission. are there ones that are truly 100% autonomous private?

No way. Its regulated on the transmission and distrubution scale.

You cant exactly build infinite power lines down limited right of way.

 

[TOGIE]

No way. Its regulated on the transmission and distrubution scale.

You cant exactly build infinite power lines down limited right of way.

yeah but that doesn't have bearing on the status of a company as private forprofit, public for profit, or regulated public semi for profit monopoly like some utilities. xcel needs to pull permits for things just like chevron does but that has nothing to do with the legality of how either one is able to generate profit.

 

[BigHornRam]

Deregulation of Montana Power was a shit show.

Who Killed Montana Power?

<b>Steve Kroft</b>: Ex-Shareholders Feel Misled

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Westelker]

@VikingsGuy @BigHornRam kinda funny comparing these threads to the gas price thread. Bottom line energy is vital for national security as is dealing with climate change.

Biggest problem in my mind is the politicization of the whole deal, some parallels to wolves in that...

It blows my mind when folks pretend climate change doesn't exist, but likewise I can't understand why green energy zealots flat out acknowledge that they don't give a rip about habitat destruction nor the fact that doubling or tripling energy costs doesn't mean much to rich folks but can devastating to the middle class and below.

If I was dictator I'd take a pragmatic approach to the whole thing, NG isn't a 100year solution but I can't even remember the last time someone mentioned acid rain. Certainly we should make the best use of that resource use it replace coal and fuel oil. Methane is definitely a greenhouse gas, far worse than carbon, but a lot of the issue with NG are old technology like using puffers in lines and flaring. We need stronger regulations on both those fronts. Along the NG lines EQT had a great white paper a while back how the US could have easily hit our Paris numbers simply by allowing more NG conversions.

Other types of energy production is also vital and needs to be supported with tax dollars. I'd also tell the rich folks who talk about both sides of their mouth to suck it and push through a lot of the wind projects on the east coast that got cut due to NIMBY-ism... if folks in Iowa have to look at wind turbines than folks in the Hamptons the Cape certainly should as well.

Last and a reply to @Wildabeest point we need to look at energy reduction as well, something like 10% of energy is lost in the grid. Compound that with the $ to the economy lost when we have power outages. I can't speak to the whole issue but here in MI I've already had 7 days without power having lived here just under 6 months. DTE our power company had to call in a ton of contractors to help with restoring power and I chatted with a couple folks in front of our house as they were dealing with a down line. They had worked in a bunch of different states and said this area had some of the oldest crappiest infrastructure they had seen. DTE is for profit and makes it's money in part by keeping those margins tight and just letting stuff go to shit... seems to me either getting rid of their monopoly or making energy utilities public is the answer. New types of cable dramatically reduce energy loss, and there are a number of ways to reduce or eliminate storm induced power outages.

Anyway I'll get off the soap box...

TDLR why is everything a GD team sport always

I agree with most of what you said. Climate change has occurred since the earth was created. Yes, we need to address climate change at the same time we need to address cleaner ways to use fossil fuels. But we still need to live our lives. No matter how the environmentalist address the green issues, it will always take some type of fossil fuel to make solar or wind products. I'd like to see some turbines at the Hamptons etc.. If it's good enough for Wyoming it should be good enough for MA. Are wind turbines all that efficient?
Besides all the hay in the world, it doesn't matter what the U.S. does regarding "saving the planet"; as long as China, Russia and India ignore this whole issue nothing significant will really change.

 

[Dave N]

Besides all the hay in the world, it doesn't matter what the U.S. does regarding "saving the planet"; as long as China, Russia and India ignore this whole issue nothing significant will really change.

This is what needs to be hammered home to the powers that be. That, and "slow and steady wins the race". Doing it all for everyone won't solve anything and rushing in blindly leads to mistakes and more costs.

 

[SAJ-99]

Damn SAJ-99! Your hammering that gob of power bait I tossed out to you!

You can tell how corrupt your electric utility company is by its position on net metering.

Montana rejects NorthWestern's bid to end net metering, add separate rate class for solar

The proposal also would have added a demand charge. Regulators rejected the plan unanimously.

www.utilitydive.com

 

[BigHornRam]

You can tell how corrupt your electric utility company is by its position on net metering.

Montana rejects NorthWestern's bid to end net metering, add separate rate class for solar

The proposal also would have added a demand charge. Regulators rejected the plan unanimously.

www.utilitydive.com

Checks and balances.

 

[Nick87]

This is what needs to be hammered home to the powers that be. That, and "slow and steady wins the race". Doing it all for everyone won't solve anything and rushing in blindly leads to mistakes and more costs.

Powers that be are too busy shoveling cash.

 

[SAJ-99]

I agree with most of what you said. Climate change has occurred since the earth was created. Yes, we need to address climate change at the same time we need to address cleaner ways to use fossil fuels. But we still need to live our lives. No matter how the environmentalist address the green issues, it will always take some type of fossil fuel to make solar or wind products. I'd like to see some turbines at the Hamptons etc.. If it's good enough for Wyoming it should be good enough for MA. Are wind turbines all that efficient?
Besides all the hay in the world, it doesn't matter what the U.S. does regarding "saving the planet"; as long as China, Russia and India ignore this whole issue nothing significant will really change.

Does this meet your critieria?

Vineyard Wind finished its first offshore wind turbine. Here's a peek

Crews working on the Vineyard Wind 1 project — located 15 miles south of Martha's Vineyard — have put the third and final blade on the first of 62 planned turbines. Check out the photos of the completed structure.

www.wbur.org

I think you sound pragmatic (which makes me wonder if you are @AvidIndoorsman burner account, ), but it is good. But you may not exactly understand how stuff gets done in the political world today. See below. Also, “we still need to live our lives” translates to “we don’t want to pay for our past, so continue the present.” This is all about $$$$. Always has been. Wait until we find out that the Saudi oil reserve number has been bullshit for like 20years. below was last year. This year’s number was 2,456.

‘Explosion’ in number of fossil fuel lobbyists at Cop27 climate summit | Cop27 | The Guardian

Oil and gas industries have 636 representatives at Egypt conference – a rise of more than 25% on previous year

amp.theguardian.com

 

[BigHornRam]

More checks and balances keep Warren Buffett from fleecing Wyoming customers, including me in the near future!

Historic electric rate hike whittled to 5.5% after utility admits error - WyoFile

Rocky Mountain Power’s Wyoming customers will see an overall rate hike of 5.5% in January rather than the historic 29.2% increase the company initially proposed.

wyofile.com

 

[BigHornRam]

This is what needs to be hammered home to the powers that be. That, and "slow and steady wins the race". Doing it all for everyone won't solve anything and rushing in blindly leads to mistakes and more costs.

The powers that be got the slow memo. The steady memo is still in the works.

Congress provided $7.5B for electric vehicle chargers. Built so far: Zero.

The sluggish rollout could undermine President Joe Biden’s reelection messaging promoting electric vehicles.

www.politico.com

 

[Cornbread]

Don't be afraid to click the link and read it yourself, or do you want a handout?

I did look at the link. A lot of vague stuff. No specific spelling out in detail of the tax legislation that is the handout to the oil & gas industry.

 

[Cornbread]

But yes, Ben Lamb's guy could go to YVEC and tell them he could give them endless energy and they would say "No thanks, we are going to stick with coal".

Maybe that's because coal is the most efficient at producing electricity.

 

[BigHornRam]

Inspite of the massive subsidies, offshore wind development is not panning out.

Despite setbacks, states are still counting on offshore wind - Louisiana Illuminator

In recent months, East Coast states’ plans to install massive offshore wind farms have been battered by newfound uncertainty.

lailluminator.com

"Some developers who have recently pulled out of long-planned projects cite interest rates, inflation and supply chain issues, saying the price at which they agreed to sell their energy no longer warrants their costs. States have resisted the companies’ requests for more subsidies or price hikes, casting additional projects in doubt."

 

[BigHornRam]

I did look at the link. A lot of vague stuff. No specific spelling out in detail of the tax legislation that is the handout to the oil & gas industry.

The study is only 7 years out of date, but it did mention this relevant point to the threads topic.

"Over the past six years, 2011 through 2016, renewable energy received more than three times as much help in federal incentives as oil, natural gas, coal, and nuclear combined, and 27 times as much as nuclear energy."

 

[JustinsDad]

I spent a career in Energy. The way the government skews the numbers on solar and wind should be criminal. They don’t include electrical loss via resistance in their efficiency calculations which is huge. They ignore the damage done to wildlife. They ignore how much energy it takes to build and maintain the “green” systems. They ignore disposal issues with batteries and plastics. It’s a complete bunch of propaganda and I can’t believe how so many people believe they are saving the planet with this crap yet they are fine with overpopulating. Rant over. I feel better now

 

[F250]

I would like 60 Minutes to do a segment on the destruction of tundra areas that i have seen in the far north where mining for rare metals takes place.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I spent a career in Energy. The way the government skews the numbers on solar and wind should be criminal. They don’t include electrical loss via resistance in their efficiency calculations which is huge. They ignore the damage done to wildlife. They ignore how much energy it takes to build and maintain the “green” systems. They ignore disposal issues with batteries and plastics. It’s a complete bunch of propaganda and I can’t believe how so many people believe they are saving the planet with this crap yet they are fine with overpopulating. Rant over. I feel better now

I work in Energy as well.

I mention the exact same thing above to various people all the time and they look at me like I have a third eye.

You will never feel better by bringing it up because people are so stupid and naive that it truly is beyond comprehension and ALMOST not worth arguing. The people you are arguing reason to would argue with you that it is sunny in a black box. These people want complete and utter govt control (likely because they are federal employees of some sort). There is too much govt money going towards these projects for people to not jump on board to get a bite of the govt pork. I would say that 95% of the people know that everything to do with wind and solar power is a lost cause but it is lining their pockets via contracts and subsidies. But their moral compass just keeps them pointed towards that money regardless of the damage done to the planet to build these "green energy" devices.

Meanwhile, there is enough clean burning natural gas under the ground in Pennsylvania alone to power our country for 1000 years. But "Green Energy" and "Orange man bad" is all I hear. lol