240 Weatherby, 6mm Creed

[Dan O]

The 270 Win is a darn fine caliber and will serve him well.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

I'm sorry for derailing your thread earlier.

Me too...

 

[Europe]

std7mag and losing-sanity , no apology necessary at all fellows. your discussion was interesting, Std7mag, Did you decide ?

ANNNNDD (-: ImBillT and std7mag---you are not wrong.

I have a 7 x 57, bought my great granddaughter a 7mm-08, arranged for a friend to own a 275 H & H and a very good friend used a 280A.I. on her Marco Polo hunt. David, Don, Guy, Cheyenne will remember that hunt and how well that 280 A.I. worked for her. My goodness that was 7 years ago now. Boy how time flies when your having fun (-:

anyway I hear you guys and thank you both--good point.

p.s. before everyone jumps on me about the 7x 57, I know it doesn't measure up to the 280 A.I. or even the 7mm Rem, but I liked it (-:

p.s.ps. The 7mm is a LOT better then the 6MM---Right David

 

[noharleyyet]

Spoil them grandchildren...your children deserve it!

 

[44hunter45]

Gentlemen : Thank you.

As often happens our conversation has evolved and I think I was able to move this along a bit when I was finally able to speak to him on the phone for an extended time.

I will try to keep this as short as possible, but he asked the question we have seen asked or been asked a hundred times. What is the one caliber for everything (-;

Anyway, we had a good conversation about three rifles ( calibers ) possibly being a bit better than one. And that there are many calibers that would work for everything but the dangerous seven in Africa and even that is because of the legal requirements.

Anyway, after mentioning the 30-06 is never a bad place to start, or a 270 Win if you go low or a 35 Whelen if you go high for a one gun hunter,

I told him he could not go wrong with three guns from Winchester ( 243, 270, 338 ) and he might want to rethink taking the 244 H & H and add a 300 H & H and a 375 H & H as he goes through life, that wouldn't be all bad. Even a 257, 300, 340 Weatherby would not be chopped liver.

I tried to stress not following the crowd blindly after he mentioned a couple other teenage boys and what they said he should get, but I found out those boys dont have a rifle ( when I suggested he shoot theirs and see if he likes them ) Anyway, of course there are holes in my three caliber suggestion as two of three would not allow him to hunt DG in Africa someday, but you get my point.

We ended the conversation with us agreeing on two of three points (-: We both agreed the 270 Win caliber should work for everything except the big bears and from memory I told him I thought O,Conner took a couple of them with a 270, but he gets ready to hunt the big bears and If I am still alive we will get him a larger caliber.

He wanted a Weatherby and I had no problem with that. The sticking point. I, of course, like the Deluxe and he wants either the Back Country or High Country model. We are getting closer.

I thank you gentlemen and apologize that after discussing the merits of one caliber , we went to a different caliber. My apologizes

Bambistew: Thank you. Not just for your post on this thread but some of the things you said off the forum somewhat directed me to move him to three rifles ( calibers ) Best of luck on the build and hunt, too bad it wasn't ready this year, but it will hunt next year and maybe in a different country --how cool would that be !

It seems to me, April, that you have no need of our opinions on this.

Our opinions being worth what you have paid for them and no more accurate than your post cited here.

 

[ImBillT]

I won’t beat up a 7x57. In a Mauser or other rifle with an appropriate magazine length, it has a very real advantage over a 7-08 in a short action, particularly with modern bullets.

 

[std7mag]

Once again, we'll agree to disagree. Lol

Not a thing wrong with the 7X57!
You'll get no agruement from me about it.
I still need to finish my daughters Mauser in 7X57.
But having shot extensively a 7mm-08, and AI (to the tune of over 6,000 rounds),
I'm not going to agree that the 7X57 has any notable advantage. Especially in a short action.

April,
I'm torn between the 3. Each has it's merits and disadvantages.
Leaning towards dual port, right bolt.
I'm very right handed...

 

[MO Betta]

I'm biased as heck but the .270 is an excellent choice, I think that was a good decision.

 

[JLS]

In all honesty, it’s really easy to overthink this. There are a myriad of cartridges that would serve very well as a do all rifle.

 

[jeff_gibbons]

This is like watching a T bone steak fresh off the flame being dragged through a kennel. Sadistic.

 

[ImBillT]

Once again, we'll agree to disagree. Lol

Not a thing wrong with the 7X57!
You'll get no agruement from me about it.
I still need to finish my daughters Mauser in 7X57.
But having shot extensively a 7mm-08, and AI (to the tune of over 6,000 rounds),
I'm not going to agree that the 7X57 has any notable advantage. Especially in a short action.

April,
I'm torn between the 3. Each has it's merits and disadvantages.
Leaning towards dual port, right bolt.
I'm very right handed...

This is not the first comprehension issue you’ve had. I was not comparing the cartridges in the same action length. I was comparing the 7x57 the way any Mauser based cartridge should be built(in something longer than a short action) to a 7-08 pretty much the only way you’ll ever find it(in a short action). I said a 7x57 in a Mauser(even an M48 is longer than a 700S/A) or other APPROPRIATE length action has an advantage over a 7-08 that is in a SHORT ACTION. 308Win based cartridges paired with modern bullets don’t quite fit in a 2.800” magazine without the bullet eating case capacity. 55mm and 57mm cartridges in Mausers and other equal or longer actions have all the magazine room they could ever need. In fact, the 6.5x55 and 7x57 were both originally chambered with long throats, which probably had a lot to do with the relatively long magazines in Mauser actions.

The 7x57 has about 2% more case capacity than a 7-08 if one is measuring empty cases. With bullets seated to fit in a 700S/A the advantage mostly goes away. SAMMI chamber dimensions for a 7x57 have a .058” throat to give you some hope of getting it into a 700S/A. A 7-08 has about a .120” throat. Both will fit a blunt 168gr bullet in a S/A magazine, but neither will fit a 168VLD. On the other hand, a CIP spec chamber has a .287” throat. The .229” longer throat results is a 4.5% increase in usable case capacity. Yes, a 7x57 has a 6.5% case capacity advantage over a 7-08 when you set up a 7x57 using the CIP chamber, which is the way it should be set up, because you shouldn’t be trying to fit Mauser cartridges in a 700S/A in the first place. A 7-08 AI with a .120” throat still has less usable case capacity(almost 4% less) than a 7x57 with a .288” throat. That’s just the case capacity advantage. Again, a 7x57 shouldn’t be stuffed into a S/A, and if it isn’t, the world is your oyster for bullets. You can’t load a 168VLD to magazine length with a 7-08 in a S/A let alone a 195EOL. With a 7x57 in an M98 you can load a 195EOL, just kissing the lands, and still be inside the magazine. If that’s not a substantial advantage I don’t know what is!!!

You can load the 195EOL in the CIP chamber in an M48 Yugo(shorter than an M98, but longer than a 700S/A) with .062” jump.

I know I said that the 7-08 would not fit a 168 VLD in a magazine. That’s based on the standard maximum of 2.800”. If you seated a 168VLD with the bearing surface exactly at the case mouth of a maximum length case you would measure 2.806”. You can often squeeze out as much as 2.830”-2.845”, but you’re asking for jams and other problems.

And to get right back where I started, I didn’t put the 7x57 in a short action. I put the 7-08 in a short action, and the 7x57 in something at least as long as a Mauser.

Before your finish your daughter’s Mauser, get a throating reamer and give that chamber a decent length throat. My money says you probably used a SAMMI spec reamer instead of CIP spec or custom.

 

[std7mag]

Perhaps i misinterpeted the wording of your original post.
My appologies.

My 7mm-08/7mm-08AI was a Stevens 200 with blind magazine. Savage is VERY generous for their bling magazine lengths.
168gr VLD seated to neck/shoulder junction not an issue.
The issue is getting a loaded cartridge OUT of the rifle. Lol
I couldn't do that when i originally bought the rifle. When the throat got to this point, i changed barrels to a 250 Savage(6,000+ rounds). And have been very pleased with this cartridge as well.

My planned range/match rifle build is going to be a 7mm-08AI set up for the 160gr Sierra Tipped MatchKings.
With the 30" barrel, i should be able to comfortably be able to reach my goal of 2,800 fps.

Daughters Mauser will be custom reamer set up for the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

 

[std7mag]

Due to derailing Europe's thread, (Sorry April) i'll defer any more match type rifle/optics/loading to a more match oriented forum.

If your accurate, you can guess which one.

 

[Panda Bear]

In all honesty, it’s really easy to overthink this. There are a myriad of cartridges that would serve very well as a do all rifle.

if we eliminate DG in Africa, I agree. I hunted wolf to bear with a 30-06 for years and now hunt the same animals with a 348. My husband does the same thing with his 340 Weatherby. If hunting the world however and knowing it would include DG, I would take my 375 H & H as my one rifle . We have an old 9.3 x 64 Brenneke that would possibly also work as a one rifle for the world as well, since I have been told it is legal for DG in Africa. excluding DG but including bears, I would probably not go below a 30-06. And even for moose, muskox, bison, I would rather not go below a 30-06. So my choice for a "do-all" rifle would have caveats . But for everything I hunt a 30-06 thru 375 H & H includes a lot of calibers to choice from AND I would not feel uncomfortable using our old 45/70 either, but it does tend to waste meat and hides

following std7mag lead, I also apologize, as I got a bit off track myself---blame my post on JLS

 

[Europe]

JLS : you are definitely correct sir

I subscribe to the old saying : Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach . and unfortunately, I no longer--can )-:

Plus I did not know anything about Weatherby's new 6mm caliber, and so I asked.

Plus, I dont want to dictate to the young man. I want him to think, research, and learn, not just about what he ends up getting but about why he got it and/or chose it over other calibers/rifles ( we even discussed pf vs crf as well as the Weatherby action ) and how this rifle will work in rotation with his next rifle

and---I still believe that one is never to old, to learn, which is again why I ask

std7mag, ImBillT an panda. no problem at all, your posts have contributed, thank you. And Panda there are people out there that would love to have that 9.3 x64 B, maybe not on this forum, but there are those who love those old calibers. I remember hunting with a fellow who had a 9.3 x74 Double Very cool. And yes most countries will allow it as a 375 H & H equivalent

std7mag. There use to be a company called Granite Mountain that made nice actions, I dont know if they are still in business or not ? Best of luck

 

[JLS]

Certainly not intending to criticize your questions, I’m just making an observation. I’m usually guilty of overthinking stuff myself.

 

[std7mag]

You are definitely correct in your observation, JLS.
Many fine cartridges have been with us for 100 years plus.
Reinventing the wheel?

Perhaps an old cartridge, in a modern firearm, with modern powders and bullets could be the new cool?

I'd often wondered about the 425 Westley Richards necked to 7mm.

Though we have indeed strayed far from the original 240 Weatherby vs 6mm Creedmoor... Lol

As far as newer cartridges, mayhaps a Gunwerks 7mm LRM?
375 Ruger necked to 7mm.

 

[Johnny B]

A 240 Weatherby will drop most anything up to an elk. In a pinch, it’ll work for that too.
The 240 is tried and true. I was torn between it or a 257, then got a great deal on a 257. Maybe one day.

How do you like your 257? I have one in my safe that I have yet to put a scope on. Going to get it ready for deer next year.

 

[JLS]

Many fine cartridges have been with us for 100 years plus.
Reinventing the wheel?

The last two rifles I bought, I chose the rifle I wanted and then picked what I get was the best cartridge choice offered for what I was trying to accomplish.

 

[std7mag]

Some rifles and cartridges just go together.
Like my Ruger 77 in 257 Roberts.
I dreamt/longed for that combo for many years, before i found one i could finally afford.