seeth07
Well-known member
What do you mean "locked up". I get there are ways they can harass hunters and elk of which is technically a crime and possibly punishable if turned in.
New Mexico Privatization. Nuthin like it
- Thread starter abqbw
- Start date
Valley1320
Well-known member
Gates all locked on unit wide during hunting season and landowners running into elk hunters on their unit wide ranch elk hunting and trying to throw them off. Ya you can turn them in but the damage has already been done plus the unit I've drawn, its 40mins to cell service for me. So not even possible to get a game warden on it in a timely fashion. Plus am I going to be willing to take 2-3hrs out of my hunting time to go turn a guy in and track down a game warden? For me it's easier just to hunt public land
So I guess for me you can say it would be a me problem just as much as a them problem beings I wouldn't want to take the time to get the law involved.
seeth07
Well-known member
I don't have a problem with them locking gates on roads that are established as their private roads. No different than having to hike a long ways on public to get to good spots. Hunter harassment is another story however. That I'm sure isn't a unique NM problem on private lands open to public. It is going to happen no matter where you are.Gates all locked on unit wide during hunting season and landowners running into elk hunters on their unit wide ranch elk hunting and trying to throw them off. Ya you can turn them in but the damage has already been done plus the unit I've drawn, its 40mins to cell service for me. So not even possible to get a game warden on it in a timely fashion. Plus am I going to be willing to take 2-3hrs out of my hunting time to go turn a guy in and track down a game warden? For me it's easier just to hunt public land
Valley1320
Well-known member
That's true! I think there would be less of a problem if it was open gate property instead of being unit wide cause they want to sell unit wide tags off their place.
So I watched a Game Commish meeting from March19th (?),Silver City. YT, NMG&F.
New Commishion, finally a aquorum.
A loooooong meeting. I fast forwarded thru a bunch.
But, in it a full breakdown of how E-Plus works from the staff. Numbers,maps,etc...
Dozens waiting to speak at the end.
You can scroll to the presentations, speakers etc...
Lots of wolf talk , and e-plus.
Naysayers and proponents.
I knew several ranchers & a county commsioner who spoke. I am a member of the Western Landowners Alliance and a there was presentation speaker from them.
Even I was surprised at what I learned. Worth the trouble...
New Commishion, finally a aquorum.
A loooooong meeting. I fast forwarded thru a bunch.
But, in it a full breakdown of how E-Plus works from the staff. Numbers,maps,etc...
Dozens waiting to speak at the end.
You can scroll to the presentations, speakers etc...
Lots of wolf talk , and e-plus.
Naysayers and proponents.
I knew several ranchers & a county commsioner who spoke. I am a member of the Western Landowners Alliance and a there was presentation speaker from them.
Even I was surprised at what I learned. Worth the trouble...
There’s virtually 0 enforcement and the ranches know that. Hiked way into an eplus property last year that had a locked gate only to watch said gate be unlocked and an outfitter with clients come in. Clients were excited to shared they’d bought tags and had the only acess in as the guide tried to get them out of talking. Game warden called me back 4 days later to let me know he’d “go take a look”Gates all locked on unit wide during hunting season and landowners running into elk hunters on their unit wide ranch elk hunting and trying to throw them off. Ya you can turn them in but the damage has already been done plus the unit I've drawn, its 40mins to cell service for me. So not even possible to get a game warden on it in a timely fashion. Plus am I going to be willing to take 2-3hrs out of my hunting time to go turn a guy in and track down a game warden? For me it's easier just to hunt public land
April 19 was the meeting date. 8 hrs...........but you can just scroll along the bottom to find E-plus.
If I had a UW tag and the UW ranch gates were closed,I would just cross the fence and hunt it. But you better know where you are.
Take a pic of the locked gate with the date.
There are no where near enough Wardens.
If I had a UW tag and the UW ranch gates were closed,I would just cross the fence and hunt it. But you better know where you are.
Take a pic of the locked gate with the date.
There are no where near enough Wardens.
Will check it out.
While I agree it documenting the ranch can just say the gates always locked and then it’s a he said she said that goes nowhere. But your comment about knowing where you are brings up another point. Whether sent signs from the state or required to buy their own. Should be mandated to post properties as eplus at any obvious access point. even with onx the amount of gates dummy locked absolutely covered with no trespassing signs is enough to keep the avg gets a tag every 7+ years hunter off. It’s just crazy to me there’s no real enforceable standard of requirements. At least the open gate properties get proper signage.
seeth07
Well-known member
I don't understand why there is this thought of a private ranch open to the public thru a program carries a requirement to have private gates and private roads open. The no trespassing signs are legit because those lands aren't open to the public 365 days of the year correct?
Khunter
Well-known member
Have had trouble with NM ranchers and outfitters trying to screw the public draw hunters (me included) out of access to unit wide ranch hunting. I never buckled but it does take something away from the hunt experience dealing with liars and fraudsters. Most recent was not far from Pie Town in a primo unit.
Have had same here in Colo a couple times and got the best of them in the end but, again, a PIA to deal with when trying to just hunt.
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Khunter
Well-known member
The issue I have encountered that is not legal, but not enforced even remotely well enough is this.
It is OK to lock gates but they MUST be locked for guided hunters, family member hunters and the public draw hunters. Can’t lock out public but let in guided hunters to drive through gates. Catching them doing that, which I have, yielded zero repercussion for the rancher/outfitter.
Gotta be a better way to manage this. Same issue in Colo abounds in my experience. Although in Colo I had a landownwer tag and tey tried to block me from hunting thre property at all. The outfitter/ranch manger git a hell of an education in one case. That was funny and sad at same time.
seeth07
Well-known member
I guess I don't understand why the landowner can't pick and choose if he allows someone to use the roads that are private.
In NE there is a public land program and all the private roads are posted closed but if you call the landowner, he can grant you a written permission slip to use them.
WI there isn't a lot enrolled in public lands programs where the size of the parcel makes a difference but it's the same thing. Just down the road from me is a small piece that is open thru a public land tax program and I know the guy and have permission to drive out there if I want. No one else can.
Maybe the program has a specific rule outlining access requirements and it's in there, maybe Hank knows to comment on this item
Because as part of the unit wide eplus program you have to allow everyone the same access you can’t pick and choose. That is the issue here. If the gate stays locked for everyone no problem. When certain people, mostly always outfitters, can come in an out is where the issue lies.
Comparing anything from the Midwest in terms of policy is complete apples and oranges.
Unit-wide private lands in the EPLUS program in New Mexico are open during public elk hunts for hunting purposes only. Hunters have free, unrestricted, and equal access to the ranches during their licensed hunt dates, which includes scouting up to two days before the hunt begins. Landowners and their employees cannot interfere with hunters while on the ranch, and hunters are not required to notify landowners or their employees before entering.
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David58
Well-known member
I get it, but where I grew up if the gate was locked and the land posted, you understood the landowner sentiments very clearly. I'm slow to cross someone's fence even if I am right - the potential conflict is not worth it.
I do see that very thing being a broken part of EPlus. Where we have hunted the last three seasons, landowners with unit wide tags do a good job of keeping all gates locked and prominent postings against trespass. Irritating because they have access to the water (a river) locked up, and beyond the river is public land where the elk hang out (and it is a looong way to get up in there from either upstream or downstream). It just doesn't seem worth it to me - I hunt to relax, not to get in a fight with a landowner.
And yes, there are far too few wardens (by design, maybe?).
David
NM
Khunter
Well-known member
yes, the program has rules. Simple and in line with what I said and post #73 by NM252525 is spot on and consistent with the EPlus rules. And his comment about trying to align anything to do with midwest hunt access rules is pointless is true.
and if read the Eplus rules “equal access” means road access for all or none equally. Period.
Read the Eplus rules if still find this confounding. Trying to run a square peg (WI/NE etc midwest rules and culture into a round hole (NM Eplus rules) is pointless. How could it not be.
Landowners in E-Plus can’t open gates/allow easier access for one person but restrict it for the next. That is against the rules.
This sounds like an enforcement issue to be sure, and I can see how it would be frustrating and tarnish the experience of a hunt. Best thing to do in my opinion is stay on it and force the issue so violating landowners don’t continue to get away with it. This is the same as with any other violation (poaching, unlawful vehicle use etc), needs to be repetitively called in until it’s fixed- otherwise it just continues.
This sounds like an enforcement issue to be sure, and I can see how it would be frustrating and tarnish the experience of a hunt. Best thing to do in my opinion is stay on it and force the issue so violating landowners don’t continue to get away with it. This is the same as with any other violation (poaching, unlawful vehicle use etc), needs to be repetitively called in until it’s fixed- otherwise it just continues.
